Major weakness in the 4G63 motor...

[Spinall4]

Originally posted by Phoenyx


These cars are extremely underestimated by the DSM community. The car is definitely in their league. I remember I went down deer park avenue in Long Island, NY one night and came across a GS-T 2nd gen eclipse. I pulled up and asked the guy if he wanted to race. He said, "what car you going to race in?" I said, "This car here (noting my red Probe turbo that just had exhaust and upgraded turbo with stock boost). He replied, "Are you serious?" I said, "Come on out and find out!" Needless to say, we were dead even from 1st - 3rd gear and then I started walking him....

-M

I think the reason most dsmers don't have any respect for the turbo probe, is beacse there SLOW! when the only modd I had was a K&N filter(that was it, not even the free modds) I raced my friends turbo probe from a stop and put 6-7 car lenghts on him by 65. I know your gona blab on about the awd launch, but I'm an a/t and when my car was stock I realy didn't have that great of launches(I still only pull 1.81 sec 60ft times) my car ran around 15.9-16.0 when I was bone stock, and that puts the turbo probe into the 17's in the 1/4 mi, not exactly a respectable place to be.

 

[Intrusive97gsx]

I know what a 1989 Ford Probe GT ( 3" turbo back, BK boost controller 15psi) is capable of and it will not beat a 1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T (2.5" turbo back, 16 psi, 1g BOV) on the highway. The Fe2 can't compare to the 4g63, end of story. Now will you please take this argument back to Probetalk where you can try and compare the FE3 to a 4g63.

 

[na90dsm]

i just cant beleive that this thread is still going. dont get me wrong, in the begining this was a good discussion, now i dont know what happened.:laugh:

 

[Phoenyx]

Originally posted by na90dsm
i just cant beleive that this thread is still going. dont get me wrong, in the begining this was a good discussion, now i dont know what happened.:laugh:

I agree. Let the thread die.. It was a nice one while it lasted..


-M

 

[talon2g]

i would say its the stock exhaust manifold, that and the turbo does die off early

 

[92TsiTalon]

sorry....i dont want to keep the thread going, but.....this one cracked me up. ive heard all the comparisons i could possibly imagine, but ive never heard probe vs. dsm.

do you REALLY want to know why your having upper rpm troubles? try to get ahold of some compressor maps for your 14b, and if you know how to read one, try to figure out why running 17psi to redline on everything that matters pretty much stock keep your car from running well at high rpms.

for intance, back in the day when i owned a '92 Tsi AWD A/T, the car had a 13G on it. Even smaller than the 14b!!! Holy small turbos batman!!! That must mean it doesnt flow as much air. when a turbo reaches its peak flow (for a 14b i believe its 450 cfm), it is running very poor due to the fact that its AT ITS PEAK. when a turbo goes out of its "efficient" range on the compressor map, the charge air temperature get increasingly hotter.

so boost compresses air, compressing air heats it up, and heat air up makes it expand. the trick is to get the most air into any given volume. if the air it too hot, you have wasted pointless energy in compressing it more. turn your boost down to say 14-15 psi and tell me if you can tell a difference.

my 13g ran just stronger at 14psi as it did at 19psi. all that means is that i wasnt flowing the same amount of air, but i was stressing the engine out over hot intake temps. the fuel pressure regulator runs off of a the same vacuum line that you would tap into for a boost gauge. since that is the case, the fuel system was probably trying harder at 19psi than 14psi. so the stock fuel system is running out of juice. that means high egt's, crappy timing, and worst of all KNOCK.

now you have:
-high intake temperatures that are more prone to detonation
-high egt's that could probably cake a hole in a piston any time now
-timing that starves your engine of compression and air/fuel mixture
-and worst of all, knock that ripping your engine a new poo-hole

where's the discussion? run the car the right way and you wont have the same problems. if it helps, my a/t (when it was STOCK) ran a 9.6 at an 1/8th mile track. that's plenty good for a factory car, but the question remains:

WHY WOULD YOU BUY A DSM AND WORRY ABOUT STOCK PERFORMANCE....AT ALL.....EVER?!?!?!




oh.....and btw....i stopped reading after page 2 so sorry if this repeats anything....

 

[WATTSPXR]

It's pretty simple, Think of a rich couple that asked you to pull them on those (I don't know the name of it) wagons. You take them around town, no big deal your up for the task, you're in shape, everything seems to be fine. Now you have 2 other couples want to jump on too, 1 guy's carrying a transfercase and a couple drive shafts, the other guy is carrying a damn rearend. Your level of performance hasn't changed though the additional weight and excess bagage has made steady higher end sprints nearly impossible. Try see how fast you'll pickup speed when those rich folks ask you to hit 8+mph from your steady 4 now...hmmmmmmm

Replace this stupid illustration with a FWD and a AWD, get the Drift

 

[Silver2GST]

i have never raced a ProbeGT who could come within 2 car lengths. i see them all the time and they get me more in the low end then up top. but once im at spool, its all over. this was with just a 1G BOV/UICP and air filter on my heavy 2G (heavy ass audio ).

ProbeGTs maybe nice, but i don't think i'll downgrade anytime soon...

 

[KGB Pilot125]

ok first off I didnt read past the first page but I did read the last page so that counts right. you are never going to get you AWD car to pull like a 2wd car on the top end you just arent (as long as they are both stockl once its modded same rules dont apply)

I have 3 AWD vehicles a 12 sec, 13, sec and the GSX low 14's?????? maybe
form a roll my 12 sec Syclone will lose to a 13/14 sec camaro/vette/honda/240swappeds15 you name it if it runs in the 13's and I race him from a roll I will lose because of the AWD it kills you from about 80mph on up. jsut the way it is.

as for the probe vs DSM my friend has a probe with gutted cat, K&N and upped the boost a bit and when we raced and I was stock I lost by a couple car lenghts then we ran when I got a K&N and hacked the air can and maf and I walked him by about 4 lengths. then I blew up the motor.