maft vs. 2g maf

[rian4g63]

i have a n/t 93, and i wanted to get some opinions, i dont have the money to go turbo just yet, so would a 3in gm maf and maft yield better results or the 2g maf?

 

[xdxoxuxgx]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/237906-gm-maf-vs-2g-maf.html

Hope that helps

 

[lo_boost]

only if you have dsmlink and you plan on tuning. i woulnt worrie about that just yet.

 

[DSMTriad]

i have a n/t 93, and i wanted to get some opinions, i dont have the money to go turbo just yet, so would a 3in gm maf and maft yield better results or the 2g maf?

So are you getting a turbo for you NT? Or are you using the 2gmaf/maft for your NT?

 

[rian4g63]

thanks guys

 

[rian4g63]

im planning on staying nt for the next few months, but as soon as i can afford a 14b setup, iwill

 

[spoonman]

If you want the best intake flow possible read this thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...efore-buying-tuning-tool-take-look-dsmap.html

As some know I am as of now once again N/T, All you need to run a Manifold Absolute Pressure tuning system on the N/T is a turbo eprom ecu with the injector and the DSMap setup. If you do plan on going to turbo this is a very cheap and a very good tuning system. I am running my set up with the stock turbo fuel pump, the 450cc manual turbo injectors, and an eprom ecu. Every thing else is the same as on a N/T car. With DSMap you do not use a MAF sensor, so I am actually just running a short pipe off of my throttle body (which my AIT sensor and MAP sensor connect to) with a filter at the end. I also re tuned the engines fuel and timing curve and made it aggressive. There is a huge difference in throttle response and power.

 

[dsm-onster]

Youi will get the best results with an safc. You will be able to dial out the rich factory fuel flow and add timing at the same time. I would no bother with a maf unless you plan on running a turbo that will flow more than your maf will meter. This is the only reason why turbo guys upgrade mafs in the first place.

 

[dsm-onster]

Stop! He doesn't even have the money for a 14b and stock 1g turbo parts. . .

Best results with the money: used safc = $100. I just sold my eprom for $275 on ebay. Yay! good used AWD transmission for my new AWD setup. Go spend your time getting a non-eprom to run a SD setup for under $200, then tell us how he can get the most power for his cost.

 

[bling5tatus]

How does someone control timing with an SAFC? Never seen that trick before.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well, that is really the pot calling the kettle black. The difference in cost will give him money for something that will net a higher hp increase than 6%. Why bring up dsmlink? Stick to the topic instead of showing everyone how hurt you are about how much they charge their customers. It's not like you havn't voiced your opinion. Ans we know where this is going: SD is better than a maf. ecmlink will be out soon, and you'll say 'like the past few years.' Then we'll get into a discussion about how terrible they treat the dsm community and someone will mention: You're product WAS free, and now it's better and you charge a little. . . We know why you feel dsmlink isn't a good mod, and it's because of the cost. It's not like the opensource isn't available to edit the actual timing and fuel cells, and you'll say 'how does this make dsmlink better than ds-map.' And suddenly, this won't be about "will a gm maft give better results than a 2g maf for my n/t 1g car".

The _ original _ poster _ doesn't _ have _ the _ money. . . . This is the primary driving force behind my answer. I didn't fail to read his initial post. I gave him my opinion on what to do within his clearly stated budget. I didn't change the subject to cost. It was the subject in the first place. After all, the BEST solution is boost, more volume, and EMS. But how would this help him. This is not the best option within his stated constraint.

Now, how did I know bling would chime in. Neither choice the OP is facing alters timing independently. a timing control solution is twice as much as his options. And he could get better results than having timing control by doing a turboswap with stock parts and even an automatic turbo, ecu, and injectors. He would pay less than a timing control solution. But he _ doesn't _ have_ money _ for _ the _more _ affordable _ turbo _ swap. Come on guys, no post you've made in this thread is really related to the theme or subject. Please don't try to spend some ones money for them. Give them advice on the best solution within the budget they have.

Bling5status, you know how an safc works. And you know that you will be able to dial out the rich factory fuel flow and add timing at the same time with an safc. . . I hope . Let's get back to what this guy is asking. Hakcenter has a GREAT product he's developed for you if you want a knock sensor and the least intake restriction and you come up with the money. And bling5status will back that product up Let's keep the brand war politics out of the thread.

 

[dsm-onster]

You're really focused apparently. Which is a very good thing and I'm not angry at all about your commitment.

OK now to costs. A 1g eprom alone is over $250. A temp sensore ($40) and a map sensor ($60 or more) is neccesary. A knock should be used. . . But it may not throw a CEL if not installed ($60). The eprom needs a socket. And you need a burner or ostrich ($80 or $150). You don't need a eideband, but tuning an SD system is much easier and more accurate with a wideband ($200).

There are mafts with the gm maf for sale for less than the eprom alone.

EDIT: I was suggesting the safc over the maft because it will giveyou finer tuning, more points along the rpm range to tune vs a maft. It is also more affordable used. You will likely never overrun a stock 1g maf as n/a. If you feel the maf is restricting, you can hack it to various levels and retune it fine with an safc. IF you use a 2g maf you need an safc to retune for it. It does have a larger area and should be less restrictive. It can also be easily hacked to flow better. And the safc can tune the hack too.

 

[rian4g63]

alot of good points guys, thanks for the help, o yeah, this is gonna sound stupid, but can someone explain a knock sensor to me?

 

[bling5tatus]

The timing table will max out on a stock map when trying to use the safc to lean the fuel mixture.

Anyway, a knock sensor outputs voltage based on how much "noise" it's hearing in the motor. This noise is most of the time either some rattley part in the motor.... or a much more fun reason.... rod knock or predetonation... It's pretty much a way of telling you that your motor/tune is f'n up.

 

[rian4g63]

k, thanks

 

[spoonman]

Most maft setups ive encountered, people end up putting a safc on top of them anyways.

Hakcenter makes a very good point on the price of buying a SAFC, he could get one used and only pay $100-150, but later on he will still need a more precise tuning system and has to sell the SAFC and will maybe get the $100 back. The MAFT set up will cost over $250 and has little tunability. DSMap costs $260 for the parts for the system, $5 for a junk yard knock sensor, and you can find Eproms for cheaper $150. $415 total for a complete tuning system or he can buy a used SAFC and a MAFT system and it will cost him $350 for basic tuning. In the long run he might as well purchase a real tuning system instead of trying to resell the other parts. Or he can save a little more and get DSMlink.

 

[dsm-onster]

Safc and 2g maf would be the route to go. Infact just an safc would be fine. He can compensate for the larger injectors with that alone and he doesn't even need a cheap turbo 1g maf. Although, not having a knock sensor and runnig a high n/t timing curve is not good with high compression n/t pistons. If turbo is the way you want to go, jsut get a stock setup on your car. You have to pay for all of that with ANY of the above solutions. Unless he's looking to max out a 14b (over 300whp), then the STOCK 1g maf is fine.

So if you want a turbo:
1) maft ($250)
2) no tuning at all. runs as good as factory, plus better compression
3)safc ($100) & stock 1g maf. good to 300whp
4) safc & 2g maf ($150) good to 450whp
5)ds-map ($400-500)
6)dsmlink ($600)

All the above will allow you to run a turbo car at 200whp. . .

If you plan on turbocharging your car and want more than stockish horsepower, look at the money or learning the expertice it takes to swap pistons. Or look at not pushing your car past what the stock maf can easily handle with just an safc. In fact you can get the turbo parts and have a huge increase in power and not even buy an safc. It's not like the n/t car is within 70whp of the turbo car, especially sinc you will be running over 1point higher in compression

Everyone here's against the maft for YOUR situation. And I think it's clear that you should get an safc, unless you plan on doing over 300whp. In that case, ds-map is surely a GREAT option. But not neccesary for such a goal. The 2g maf ($50) and used safc has done far more. It 's all you need. It's not the best and the best is about twice as much. But that may not be alot to you in the grand scheme of things if you're wanting to get 350whp out of this car.

If you want more than 250whp, however, know that your car won't be reliable with the stock n/t pistons. Some may have pushed them but most crack much too easily for them to be considered reliable hardware with a strong 14b (Stock turbo for a m/t car) setup. Your stock transmission is not built like a turbo unit so an upgrade would be wise. Neither will the clutch and pressureplate be capable of living through this power.

So you're not really looking at just a good tunning solution and boom your turbo setup has plenty of growing potential. You MUST invest alot more money in other areas. And as I mentioned an SAFC and 2g maf has done much more than 400whp. The difference between a better tuning solution and an safc/2g maf combo is the neccesary clutch upgrade to warrent the purchase of a better tuning system. How much do you want from a FWD 2700lb car? Something tells me you're not really into a tranny swap, clutch swap, and engine internals swapping which involves pulling the head. An safc does enough for your goal. Why spend more?