lots of 2g 4g63t ?s

[Zac692069]

i have a 95 talon, no engine or tranny. i have been doing all sorts of research on these motors (7bolt 2g) seems like a lot of people dont like the idea of installing them into any car that needs a motor because of crank walk. my questions are pretty straight forward. since i already have to get a motor, should i try to get a jdm 7bolt? i need a tranny and transfer case too. but once again i have been reading the forums and i have found guys saying that the Japanese motors have different final gear ratios then the US 2g dsm's. i have found motors from numerous JDM suppliers like sunrisejdmmotors.com has a JDM 4G63-GTE Dohc 4 Cyl. 16 Val. Turbo Mitsubishi Eclipse / Talon 95-98 that comes with Transmission 5-Speed AWD - Transfer Case - Turbo - Intake Manifold - Exhaust Manifold - Throttle Body - Alternator - Starter - A/C Compressor - Power Steering Pump - Clutch - Fly Wheel - Pressure Plate. this would work awesome for me because i have nothing other then a t25 with shaft play, 2g intake manifold, ac compressor, who knows if its good and full exhaust from manifold back. please let me know what options i have. im in colorado so if anyone lives here can help let me know. I am willing to spend around $2000-2500 to get the thing running. im not to concerned with performance for now, stock will do, i just want the damn thing to move for now!

 

[njdaewoo]

Hello, have you ever owned a DSM car before? I ask because if you get those parts your describing from various places more than likely you will not have all the necessary hardware to put everything together. I would recommend you to buy a car thats totaled (same model as yours). Now you can remove the parts from the donor car and installed them on your car. With you doing it this way you can see exactly how the vacuum hoses go, correct bolts to use (length and correct tread pitch) etc.. It will make life a whole lot easier for you. When you try to do a job like this and you dont have all the parts I can guarantee that you will be nickeled and dimed to death. So go ahead and find that donor car.
Corey

 

[silentscreamer]

Also dont forget for paying the extra for a JDM motor is not worth it, just find a turbo 6 bolt motor(if your scared about CW), then the 96 tranny and transfer case to match up the rear end gear ration and you will be be all set and probably can get this alot cheeper then a JDM motor. If you check the classifieds there are alot of parts going for really good prices, and u pull scrap yard are a good place to look also.
good luck

 

[LiquidX]

There is no such thing as JDM with our cars. The DSM was built in Normal, IL and any DSM overseas is considered an import there. The motors are the same between USDM and "JDM" with the exception of the EVO 1-3 having larger injectors, the 16g and the cyclone intake. The cam profile was very sightly changed but nothing to to go and find. The 2g motor was the same as well and most likely came out of the Mitsubishi RVR. It came with a better intake manifold after being ported out to match the 1g TB.

Overall, don't waste your time trying to find something from overseas. The parts you listed can be found state side and check the classifieds as well for parts needed for much cheaper.

There are a lot of theories based around crankwalk and every motor can catch it. It's thrust bearing failure. Some say it's the load put on the crank from heavier clutch assemblys, the type of thrust bearing used, oiling issues, internal alignment, etc. IF you must get a 7 bolt block, make sure it's from the 2gb (97-99) car with the split thrust design which had fewer cases than the 2ga (95-96) block. Check the VIN number and decode it, it'll say what year block it is. If you don't want to worry about it as much, then find a 6 bolt block (89-92) and do the swap. The 6 bolts were almost non existant for crankwalk and people feel it's the safer way to go. There are threads on what is needed for the swap if you choose to go that route.

For the tranny, I would recommend looking into getting a rebuilt tranny with beefier upgrades if you plan on making any power down the road. The stock trannys aren't built too durable and will go out.

But if you really need to, find a junk car and do a motor swap. Just check the compression and do a leak down test if you can prior to buying it to see the condition.

 

[Zac692069]

thank you for your responses. i am new to dsm's but not new to cars. i really appreciate your input. i think i will first start by looking on craigslist or junk yards. oh and one more thing. i have a t25(stock with about 130,000 on it. would it be a waste to get it rebuilt? it spins freely but has shaft play and theres no way i would want to use this on my engine.

 

[eclipse-gs-t]

dont touch that t-25 atleast go with 14b or better 16g

 

[LiquidX]

thank you for your responses. i am new to dsm's but not new to cars. i really appreciate your input. i think i will first start by looking on craigslist or junk yards. oh and one more thing. i have a t25(stock with about 130,000 on it. would it be a waste to get it rebuilt? it spins freely but has shaft play and theres no way i would want to use this on my engine.

Try posting WTB (want to buy) ad's in the classifieds if you can and check them as well for parts. People part out cars all the time or sell stock parts. Your turbo choice is all going to be based on the plans for the car. If you want a stock replacement then I would consider a T-28 for ease of installation. If you want more power but can afford the installation costs for parts, then consider any of the 16g series (Evo3) is the biggest you can get.

Bigger you go, however, the more fuel and other supporting mods you'll need.

Does you car smoke during shifts or boost? Does the shaft play allow touching on the compressor housing?

 

[Zac692069]

as far as the smoke goes im not sure, i got the turbo with the car and the car with no motor, i just know it has some shaft play. it does not drag whatsoever. maybe i will try to sell it to someone. i found a shop in my area that specializes in 4g63 motors. guy there is real nice and seems real knowledgeable. he has 6 bolt blocks for around $1100 built. im not sure what he means by built exactly but he says it will have all new seals, bearings, pistons and such.

 

[LiquidX]

$1100 for a "built" block is a hell of a deal. I would ask him what pistons, rods and bearings he is using. As well as if the oil pump/front case is OEM and if the balance shafts are eliminated. ARP studs (head, main, rod)?

If it's $1100 for a stock rebuilt block that's still a good deal depending on what it comes with. Long block or short block? Same questions as above and if it's all stock sizing or if it's overbored.

I would ask people on here if anyone knows anything about the shop to see if he's worth going to or not. Let us know what the details are for the $1100 block.

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

Personally, I like the idea you had with the 7 bolt jdm 4g63 found in the first 3 generations of Evo's. Higher compression, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, always a plus. They are also not as prone to crankwalk as the usdm 7 bolt motor's.

 

[Zac692069]

i believe the guy said, stock crank, rods, block. new pistons, rings, bearings. oh and the caps for the water jacket and he also said thats for a shortblock. im going to take a trip to his place and talk to him a little further. he said he knows how to do the 6 bolt swap into a 2g and would be more then willing to help with any questions, modifications i need to do to make the 6bolt block work with a 2g transmission. like i said hes a real nice guy. place is called Kens Kars, inc. its in Brighton Colorado.

 

[LiquidX]

Personally, I like the idea you had with the 7 bolt jdm 4g63 found in the first 3 generations of Evo's. Higher compression, bigger injectors, bigger turbo, always a plus. They are also not as prone to crankwalk as the usdm 7 bolt motor's.

I want to see your reasoning behind your crankwalk theory that the Evo motor doesn't have it, it's still a 7bolt motor. As stated before and you can search it as well, the motors are the SAME. I don't know how you even got the higher compression as the the 1g motors actually had lower compression pistons. The injectors are only 60ish cc larger and would still need to use a tuner to compensate for the larger injector. You are just wasting money buying a motor based on those parts which are not worth the added cost.

The Evo had more power just from the turbo and the injectors, but had an ECU that allowed for the injector size so yeah, it'll make more power. It's still the same block and head. We've given you a warning already about the whole "JDM" so do it if you wish, but caveat emptor...

 

[Zac692069]

just wanna say i really appreciate your guys info, like i said earlier i am new to these cars and if i say anything completely stupid please correct me. i am trying to find a forum here that states the differences between a non turbo 6 bolt block and a turbo 6 bolt block. i found one thread and the guys are just ripping on each other, its kinda funny. but i dont quite understand whats different with a non t and a turbo 4g63 short block other then something with a knock sensor, pistons and different compression? im confused

 

[LiquidX]

i believe the guy said, stock crank, rods, block. new pistons, rings, bearings. oh and the caps for the water jacket and he also said thats for a shortblock. im going to take a trip to his place and talk to him a little further. he said he knows how to do the 6 bolt swap into a 2g and would be more then willing to help with any questions, modifications i need to do to make the 6bolt block work with a 2g transmission. like i said hes a real nice guy. place is called Kens Kars, inc. its in Brighton Colorado.

A little pricier but karking.com The price evens out with everything needed to do a swap.

I would like to know what a "water jacket" is and what the caps are for it. Find out how much price difference it is to have the balance shafts removed and ARP head studs instead of the stockers. You'll have a lot more to purchace on top of the block. 1g head assembly unless you go with a 2g head that had the head stud holes bored out 1mm. 1g CAS, water pipe setup in accordance to which head is used, intake manifold, flywheel and clutch(might as well upgrade this now). There are threads on the 6 bolt swap and this will allow you to compare on which you feel would be the more appropiate route to take.

 

[Zac692069]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/356423-n-t-6-bolt-t-6-bolt.html

thats the tread i was referring to that kinda explains the differences between the non turbo and the turbo 4g63 short block

 

[2gGSXEclipse]

They are also not as prone to crankwalk as the usdm 7 bolt motor's.

Crankwalk is way overated IMO

 

[LiquidX]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/356423-n-t-6-bolt-t-6-bolt.html

thats the tread i was referring to that kinda explains the differences between the non turbo and the turbo 4g63 short block

I would say you can use the n/t block, but the internals I would go for aftermarket or stock turbo. The Hundai motor is also 6 bolt and compatable. I believe the karking block I posted earlier uses the Hundai motor.

There is some good info in that thread. I personally use the 1g n/t throttle body as it's 60mm and fit's on the Evo3 intake manifold.

Don't jump to a decision on the motor, give it time and find more options so you can get what's best for you.

 

[Bluefire16]

Crankwalk is way overrated....IMO


After i typed this i realized a couple posts up the guy said the exact same thing....small world. Just keep up maintenance and you should be good.

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

I want to see your reasoning behind your crankwalk theory that the Evo motor doesn't have it, it's still a 7bolt motor. As stated before and you can search it as well, the motors are the SAME. I don't know how you even got the higher compression as the the 1g motors actually had lower compression pistons. The injectors are only 60ish cc larger and would still need to use a tuner to compensate for the larger injector. You are just wasting money buying a motor based on those parts which are not worth the added cost.

The Evo had more power just from the turbo and the injectors, but had an ECU that allowed for the injector size so yeah, it'll make more power. It's still the same block and head. We've given you a warning already about the whole "JDM" so do it if you wish, but caveat emptor...

Not sure where you researched but the Evo's 4g63 1 and 2 had the 7 bolt with 8.5:1 ratio and Evo' 3 and up got the 9.0:1 compression ratio. There are more diiferences then you know.

 

[93spoolin]

yeah man you cant go wrong if u buy it complete in a wrecked car.that way u her it run first,

 

[LiquidX]

Not sure where you researched but the Evo's 4g63 1 and 2 had the 7 bolt with 8.5:1 ratio and Evo' 3 and up got the 9.0:1 compression ratio. There are more diiferences then you know.

Regardless if I was wrong, it's still not exactly worth sourcing out an engine that you have no control over the quality of the motor you are getting. As stated before, it's still nothing worth trying to source out. If you went and got a block and built it up for the same price, you would still end up with the same if not better and have a fresh engine on top of that.

Trust me, I went down the "JDM" road with my car recently and it's been nothing but a headache and I wasted over 2k to go and build a fresh 6 bolt. The "JDM" motor I got walked after a week with good compressing and all that jazz and then had to wait another couple months for another shipment to come in. I said screw it and went my way which I know will be better.

Besides, you aren't guarenteed all of those parts anyway. That's only if the supplier has that specific motor. My 2g "JDM" motor came out of an RVR so it was actually a downgrade for parts except the intake manifold.

 

[Dewayne Waldron]

I see your point. My buddy imports japanese parts and ran across a jdm 7 bolt 4g63 from a '95 Evo that was complete with everything original, big 16g, big injectors, evo short runner intake manifold, 9.0:1 compression, the motor was ment, But I guess not everyone has the connection he has so most are probably never going to find such. The motor ended up selling for 1,400 complete with tranny. Most places will more than likely try to get one over on ya when they say "JDM" 4g63. So I agree with what you say, It's rather pointless unless you know exactly what you're getting. As for the OP, the nt 4g63 block would be more of a hassle than anything without having oil squirters and knock sensor and the use of weaker pistons. There are mixed feelings from people here using the block so you'll propably never get a straight answer on that. And yes "crank walk" is to over rated.

 

[LiquidX]

As for the OP, the nt 4g63 block would be more of a hassle than anything without having oil squirters and knock sensor and the use of weaker pistons. There are mixed feelings from people here using the block so you'll propably never get a straight answer on that. And yes "crank walk" is to over rated.

What I was saying earlier about the N/T block is using just that, the block. You can get away with using the same internals but they are weaker. The ring lands are higher up on the piston and are much weaker to the higher pressure and knock.
Oil squiters are a mixed bag. Some say keep and others say get rid of them. A lot will say that if you get forged pistons, then you can get rid of them. I would keep them personally and I did. It's the same setup that KarKing uses
The knock sensor is only screwed into a threaded hole in the block. Nothing special really. To get rid of it you would need a standalone to remove it I assume. ECMLink possibly gets rid of it but I don't have much info on that. There are drivers out that that have removed the knock sensor.

It is over rated, but it did infact happen to me after a week of driving a "JDM" motor.

 

[Zac692069]

Ok guys I have been doing some shoping, I'm looking for a 2g turbo head to put on a 6bolt block. I found a bunch but I'm new to these engines so please help. Some guys are telling me that the 4g63 turbo and non turbo Heads 2g are exactly the same. Is this true?

 

[LiquidX]

I'm not too sure, but the cams are different between the n/a and turbo head. That's if you are getting a full head. Remember that you'll need the head stud holes bored out 1mm on the 2g head to fit on the 6 bolt block. This is the setup I'm running once my engine is done...