1G Looking for close-up pictures of the PCB underneath the knock sensor

[sakroda]

Does anyone have any close-up photos of the components underneath the knock sensor board on a 1990 EPROM ECU? I’m specifically looking for detailed photos of the components and traces on the PCB in that area. If you have anything like that in your archives, I’d really appreciate it if you could share it.

 

[steve]

I don't have a 90 Turbo ECU with the knock sensor removed handy. This is a 90 NA 4G63 ECU.

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[sakroda]

Thank you, Steve. You know my story. Before the customs restrictions in Turkey, I used to order American ECUs. Unfortunately, several American sellers sent me defective ones, probably thinking that there was nothing I could do from Turkey if they scammed me.

I bought three of them. The pictures looked very good, and I had already shared them with you, but the back side of the boards was blown, burnt, or damaged with holes. Anyway, I eventually managed to get my hands on a 1991 Talon ECU (E931 EPROM ECU) that had been removed from one of the very few cars in Turkey. I immediately socketed the ECU.

Later, I ordered ECMLink, but for almost a year I couldn't figure out why my car wouldn't rev past 3,000 RPM. It turned out that there was some kind of fault somewhere in the ECU. After I modified the car, everything actually got worse, so I immediately returned it to the original setup, and my car regained its old power.

As you can imagine, things haven't really gone my way. To be honest, I sometimes regret not buying a LINK ECU instead.

My main question is about the Elantra and Sonata ECUs I found in Turkey. I had no problems converting them into Talon ECUs. I have done two conversions. I had a high-RPM problem with one of them, but I never had any issues with the knock circuit. The other one was very similar to the 1990 ECU, and I checked and replaced all the resistors and capacitors accordingly.

However, with this ECU, I am getting Knock Sensor Error 31 as well. That's why I wanted to see the underside of the knock board from a 1990 ECU.

Normally, I populated the electronic components according to the 1990 EPROM ECU configuration. I hope I have been able to explain my situation clearly.
mitsubishi is programmed the MH6111 with different combination. knock sensor (90's) circuit is communicating with pin 7 and MH6111 pin 64.
Before & after

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[sakroda]

without eprom and 90’s ecu is communicate with mh6111 for knock error but 90 and 91 eprom ecus are communicate with M60011-0131J pin of 28 and as you seen my M60011-0131J is exploded i think i found the issue i saw 55 degree heat by thermal camera. maybe it s normal heat range for this IC but i will order new one i hope it works.. because this ecu uses 128K and it could work out ecmlink but other ecu works with 512K it does not work with ecmlink. I guess ecmlink works only 128 or 256.

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[steve]

Bubbled and cracked the package. That port expander is dead.

 

[sakroda]

Bubbled and cracked the package. That port expander is dead.

i replaced with new one it s same knock board is broken? how to test it i don t know

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[steve]

i replaced with new one it s same knock board is broken? how to test it i don t know

I don't know either. I would double check your soldering of the port expander. It doesn't look like pin 44 is soldered.

 

[sakroda]

Hello again. I only had one ECU left from my late father’s old car. It had never been used, except that I had installed it once, and IC105 burned out. I had mentioned this to you before in connection with some other issues.

Through the tests I carried out by comparing and measuring the ECUs, I realized that the two ECUs had a very similar structure, almost as if they were twins. Everything was the same, from the processors used to the part numbers of the integrated circuits. In some places there were resistors that had to be removed, while in others the resistor values were different and had to be replaced with the values used on the Talon ECU.

After a long process of swapping and modifying components, I could not get the 512K EPROM to work. However, thanks to @Jane Hacker , who has an excellent technical mind, we managed to get the Elantra ECU working by using the idea of copying the MH6111 four times consecutively.

But when I installed ECMLink, the ECU would report an error because ECMLink did not work with the 512K version. In other words, the 64KB version was not suitable.

So I removed an MH6111 specifically from one of my old donor Talon boards, from the 1990 version, and soldered it onto the 512K-version Elantra ECU. As a result, the 128K version—the one I wanted—finally worked. I tested it today. The only issue at the moment is that the idle gets stuck around 1,750 RPM, so I am considering replacing the three capacitors.

That is basically the situation. I just wanted to give you an update. However, there is still no progress regarding the ECU that continues to give me the knock sensor error.

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[Jane Hacker]

So, I checked the code to see if the knock sensor check is different between 90 and 91, and it isn't. Port 4, 6th pin (pin #5) or pin 55 on the processor. Which should connect to pin 25 on IC E303. The actual value being used is from pin 29 on E303. That is connected to the "7" pin on the knock sensor ceramic hybrid board. When this pin is high everything is working. When it is low it will set the error flag. The check seems to be the resistance of the knock sensor itself. ~500kOhms(120k-1.1MOhm), so the sensor has to be plugged in and good. Hope this helps!

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E303:

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[sakroda]

i was doubting about that that s why i will replace 90 mh6111 tonight we will see the results maybe my mh6111 is burnt you could see before soldering I still say the same thing: you're the smartest woman I've ever met, Jane.

 

[sakroda]

@steve When i try to start the engine this component is getting heat.I see it on my thermal camera.. other ecus does not show kind of heat reaction. I replaced it from donor ecu.it s still same. What s the purpose of this component?

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[sakroda]

i replaced the 90 mh6111 cpu and i still get 31 knock sensor error. i will follow jane’s instructions after then i will remove the knock sensor. After replacing 3 capacitors rough idle issue is gone

 

[steve]

@steve When i try to start the engine this component is getting heat.I see it on my thermal camera.. other ecus does not show kind of heat reaction. I replaced it from donor ecu.it s still same. What s the purpose of this component?

It's the pass transistor for the +5 volt regulator. The voltage regulator circuit controls it and using a pass transistor allow more current to be regulated than otherwise. If it's getting hot you likely have some other damaged/shorted parts on the board. Given that the port expander blewup it's not surprising.

 

[We're on Boost]

The check seems to be the resistance of the knock sensor itself. ~500kOhms(120k-1.1MOhm)

Well I guess I can throw away this cheapo Chenho knock sensor. It measures off-scale high on a Fluke 87. Thanks for the info!

 

[Jane Hacker]

Well I guess I can throw away this cheapo Chenho knock sensor. It measures off-scale high on a Fluke 87. Thanks for the info!

I've been looking into bench testing the sensor, and I haven't seen any direct ohmmeter measurements. Since it is a piezoelectric, I think those numbers (120k-1.1Mohms) are in-circuit measurements somewhere. On the bench it should overload the ohmmeter, but not be an open circuit. That is, from what I've read... Turbo-heads feel free to chip in

 

[We're on Boost]

Since it is a piezoelectric, I think those numbers (120k-1.1Mohms) are in-circuit measurements somewhere.

Yes now that I look it up, a piezo element should have extremely high resistance, way over 1 M Ohm. High enough that the meter should read "OL" like mine does. It must be looking at a measurement somewhere in the circuit.

 

[sakroda]

It's the pass transistor for the +5 volt regulator. The voltage regulator circuit controls it and using a pass transistor allow more current to be regulated than otherwise. If it's getting hot you likely have some other damaged/shorted parts on the board. Given that the port expander blewup it's not surprising.

I removed the UC111 and heat is gone on pass transistor(green one) and replaced used donor UC111 and it s same and I measured all three pins of the transistor, and they all show close to 12 volts. Diodes was fine around pass transistor. I am confused:/

 

[sakroda]

@steve I need 90 eprom ecu knock board underneath they have different resistor colors. I hope someone did it before..Pls know that I can not import anything from outside of Turkey due to custom policy that s why i had to figure out that. it s not about money I wish I bought LinkG4 how can i know custom rules will change...

 

[steve]

@steve I need 90 eprom ecu knock board underneath they have different resistor colors. I hope someone did it before.

If I get time today I'll look and see if I already have one but I won't be desoldering the knock board off an 90 EPROM ECU to get you a picture.

 

[sakroda]

If I get time today I'll look and see if I already have one but I won't be desoldering the knock board off an 90 EPROM ECU to get you a picture.

thanks steve if you can see colour of resistors with others it would be nice

 

[steve]

I found I had one in my scrap bin that somebody had sawed off parts of. It's the most common 90 PCB version JE331A934D from a MD145903 ECU.

A quick comparison with the earlier NT ECU version, this Turbo one has R128 installed.

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[sakroda]

thank you @steve I hope I will back with good news. Would you mind take a picture whole board view and little bit lighter

 

[steve]

Would you mind take a picture whole board view and little bit lighter

Sorry, off to the airport this morning and won't be back for a couple of weeks.

 

[sakroda]

First of all, I would like to sincerely thank @Jane Hacker , and then @steve as well. The picture Steve sent me was extremely valuable. It turns out that I was getting the knock sensor fault because of a tiny 20 kΩ resistor in that area. I realized that this resistor is directly related to the communication with E303, which is the M6001. I suppose the MH6111 was waiting for a signal from there, and when it didn't receive the expected voltage value, it was triggering the fault light.

After running the car for about 10 minutes, I ended up with two Eagle Talon ECUs converted from Hyundai ECUs.

By the way, the first board, which originally belonged to my father, had a newer-generation MH6111. Jane and I looked into this together, and it was mapped as 512K, or 64 KB. I thought to myself that if I installed a 90-spec processor, it might operate as 16K, or 128 KB — and that's exactly what happened.

I changed the processors in both Hyundai ECUs. My father's ECU was 512K, while the Hyundai ECU I found later was 256K.

My father's ECU still has a high-RPM problem. I noticed that the idle control ICs are probably different: the 1990 versions are round, while the 1991 versions are square. So I am going to replace that one with the 1990 version as well and see what difference it makes.

My father's ECU actually has the square version, so technically this ECU is the closest one to a 1991 ECU. However, the component layout under the 1991 knock sensor circuit is different, so for now I consider my father's ECU to be a 1990 version as well.

I'm not claiming that I actually know what I'm doing. I'm just trying to figure things out through trial and error, with your help. But if I can really find another ECU, I will definitely buy it immediately. At this point, I'll probably keep it locked away in a cabinet in a locked room in Turkey.

If I can solve the customs/import issue, the first thing I'll do is buy a Link. Otherwise, I might just build an ECU myself. These Mitsubishi ECUs have really exhausted me.

Thanks again for everything. Now I can finally go back to the MAP sensor setup. I still have a lot of work to do. These days I'm also busy with the wheels. I bought the OZ wheels and I'm going to have them painted. I also found a set of Tommi Mäkinen 6,5 wheels, and I'm just about to buy those too.

 

[sakroda]

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next video will be ecmlink..

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