2G Looking for advice & suggestions on planned 2g build

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

Yeah stay away from the aem gauges. Get the mtxl one or this one right here.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

 

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

So I wouldn't get the one with boost control because ecmlink will do that for you. And you will be able to dial it in easier.

 

[r6speed]

So ECMLink will control boost and I don't need the "Ingersol-rand boost solenoid" previously suggested in this thread?

How does Link control the boost? Seems there would need to be some kind of solenoid for it to adjust?

I currently do not have the oem boost controller (or any boost controller). It is currently ran strictly through the 14b wastegate.

 

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

Yeah so you just wire in the Ingersoll rand boost controller which is just a solenoid into you harness on the stock boost controller wires.

 

[dustyboner]

bcschoice [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

bcsinstall [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

bcssetup [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

bcsoverview [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

 

[r6speed]

Ok got it I'll stick with the PSB-1 AF/boost gauge and the oil temp/pressure gauge.

Thanks dustyboner! I did not see that information when searching through ecmlink website.

Do I utalize the factory front O2 sensor location (on O2 housing) for the wideband? The manual for the innovative PSB-1 that you linked above says to weld the bung on the exhaust at least 24 inches downstream from the turbo, but I've read on this forum to use the factory front O2 housing bung and eliminate the front factory O2 sensor for a wideband?

I'm a bit confused if I'll need to weld on a separate bung for the wideband or not?

I'm sure ECMLink needs the information from the front O2 sensor, so I'm assuming the factory front O2 sensor wires would need to be tied into this sensors wiring if I did remove the factory front O2 sensor to utalize its location for this sensor?

 

[dustyboner]

some people run the stock o2 in the front and put the wideband either in the rear o2 spot or on the downpipe. but you can put your wideband in the o2 housing and Link can be set to simulate the narrowband signal for the ecu to use during closed loop.

some people say putting it in the stock location (o2 housing) is too close, other people say they never had any issues with it there.

 

[r6speed]

If I utalize one of the factory O2 sensor locations do I just tie/tap the factory wires into the new sensors wires that are also going to the AF gauge?

 

[dustyboner]

the car i have been working on the last few weeks has a stock o2 in the front, and rear has been replaced with the wideband.
So i just wired the wideband (0-5v) signal wire to the rear o2 pin of the ecu (i think its pin 75)

 

[dustyboner]

if your gonna buy a boost control solenoid. the hondata 4 port solenoid works good. Doesn't matter if your running high boost or low boost. And with a 10psi spring in your wastegate, your upper limit is around 50psi

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https://www.hondata.com/boost-control-solenoid

 

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

Yeah keep your front o2 sensor stock and just use the rear o2 sensor wiring and bung for the wideband.

 

[dustyboner]

usually all the widebands have a harness that runs from the o2 sensor to the controller and and another one for the output. All you have to do is cut the rear o2 signal wire about 1.5" from the ecu plug and solder the (0-5v) output wire from the wideband controller to it.

If the calibration button is on the controller, make sure its somewhere accessible. So your not having to pull the stereo, or something like that, every time you need to re-calibrate it.

 

[Imback]

Yeah stay away from the aem gauges. Get the mtxl one or this one right here.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

INCORRECT. I use the aem X series and have had better luck with it then the lc1-2 and much simpler to install. As for narrowband simulation. I normally use the o2 pin off the harness.

if your gonna buy a boost control solenoid. the hondata 4 port solenoid works good. Doesn't matter if your running high boost or low boost. And with a 10psi spring in your wastegate, your upper limit is around 50psi

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https://www.hondata.com/boost-control-solenoid

The hondata solenoid is a rebranded MAC valve. Just use the Ingersoll valve. It works and is a simple plug and play into the factory BCS plug as long as you get the pig tail for it. The DSM ecu requires 28-33 ohm resistance. Some of these other solenoids have more or less and may require a resistor. Save yourself the headache and keep it simple

Yeah keep your front o2 sensor stock and just use the rear o2 sensor wiring and bung for the wideband.

I simulate narrowband and now have 1 extra input to log. This is on a GVR4 as you can see 2g's have more available inputs

1G ECU​

• EGR Temp Input (ECU Pin 15) - Not 100% compatible with some sensors, such as the AEM WB
• IAT Input (ECU Pin 8) - see IAT/Baro Notes below
• Baro Input (ECU Pin 16) - see IAT/Baro Notes below
• Front O2 (ECU Pin 4) - Only usable when “Open Loop” option is selected (V2 or V3), or narrowband O2 simulation is enabled (V3 only).
• Coolant Temp Input (ECU Pin 20) - (V3 only) - This will leave the car in “Open Loop”. “Lock Coolant Temp” must be selected, to work properly. Use only as a last resort and only temporarily unless you fully understand the issues.

2G ECU​

• Rear O2 (ECU Pin 75)
• Front O2 (ECU Pin 76) - Only usable when “Open Loop” option is selected, or narrowband O2 simulation is enabled.
• MDP (ECU Pin 73)
• Baro (ECU Pin 85) - see IAT/Baro Notes below - Has internal pull down resistor making it unsuitable for certain sensors (see work around).
• IAT (ECU Pin 72) - see IAT/Baro Notes below
• Coolant Temp Input (ECU Pin 83) - (V3 only) - This will leave the car in “Open Loop”. “Lock Coolant Temp” must be selected, to work properly. Use only as a last resort and only temporarily unless you fully understand the issues.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I went with a digital boost Innovate gauge and really regretted it. It reads nice and clear at vacuum but once you glance at it during a pull it's just useless. You can't see shit for what boost it's at because the number is changing so rapidly. Just my opinion. It does look pretty though.

 

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

@Imback not incorrect . for everyone 1 person that has good with aem there's 10 others that has had a bad experience with them. Could and will they work yes of course. And the mtxl all you need is power ground and one wire for the ecu that's it. I've never used the 2 in 1 so idk

As far as keeping the front o2. I say keep it because let's be honest wideband sensors like to go out that's just the truth. And it makes for better open loop tuning. Even says that on ecmlink.Who wants to go out on the town and have to cut it short because the car is running like shit because the wideband sensor took a dump? Now if it was going to be a full blown race car sure delete it since you'll be trailering everywhere.

 

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

Yall gotta remember op main concern is reliability here.

 

[r6speed]

Thank you so much guys I really appreciate all this great information.

I'll stick with the mtxl for wideband and maybe look at other solutions for boost and oil pressure.
I could see the digital boost gauge being hard to read when changing so radically, so I'll find a needle gauge for that (I actually have 2 or 3 that work fine, but not clean enough looking for this build).

Another question: am I understanding dustyboner above that the factory O2 sensor could be used for the wideband sensor (instead of installing the sensor that the wideband comes with)? Or is the wideband sensor specific to that device/gauge?

In other words, can I wire the new wideband gauge to the existing/factory rear O2 sensor or will I need to swap the factory sensor out for the one that comes with the mtxl wideband gauge?
My factory O2 sensors are practically new (replaced with OEM ~2k miles ago), so if I'munderstanding this correctly that would be great. So then the wideband sensor that the gauge comes with can be a spare rear O2 sensor essentially (if I'm understanding this correctly).

Also one thing to clarify, is the throttle body elbow an acceptable location to install the speed density MAP/pressure sensor? I'm asking because I already have one of these elbows taped with 1/8" thread (from a previous boost gauge install on a different DSM). This is the elbow between the throttle body and the intake manifold that I'm referring to.

Thanks again!

 

[Imback]

@Imback not incorrect . for everyone 1 person that has good with aem there's 10 others that has had a bad experience with them. Could and will they work yes of course. And the mtxl all you need is power ground and one wire for the ecu that's it. I've never used the 2 in 1 so idk

As far as keeping the front o2. I say keep it because let's be honest wideband sensors like to go out that's just the truth. And it makes for better open loop tuning. Even says that on ecmlink.Who wants to go out on the town and have to cut it short because the car is running like shit because the wideband sensor took a dump? Now if it was going to be a full blown race car sure delete it since you'll be trailering everywhere.

Seems like your talking about what you heard online or through hearsay. I've actually installed and tuned multiple cars with the x series and have not had one issue. Again your talking about longevity of the sensor upfront. Have you installed yours upfront and had it die? Mine is going on 3 years and no sign of failing.

 

[Imback]

Thank you so much guys I really appreciate all this great information.

I'll stick with the mtxl for wideband and maybe look at other solutions for boost and oil pressure.
I could see the digital boost gauge being hard to read when changing so radically, so I'll find a needle gauge for that (I actually have 2 or 3 that work fine, but not clean enough looking for this build).

Another question: am I understanding dustyboner above that the factory O2 sensor could be used for the wideband sensor (instead of installing the sensor that the wideband comes with)? Or is the wideband sensor specific to that device/gauge?

In other words, can I wire the new wideband gauge to the existing/factory rear O2 sensor or will I need to swap the factory sensor out for the one that comes with the mtxl wideband gauge?
My factory O2 sensors are practically new (replaced with OEM ~2k miles ago), so if I'munderstanding this correctly that would be great. So then the wideband sensor that the gauge comes with can be a spare rear O2 sensor essentially (if I'm understanding this correctly).

Also one thing to clarify, is the throttle body elbow an acceptable location to install the speed density MAP/pressure sensor? I'm asking because I already have one of these elbows taped with 1/8" thread (from a previous boost gauge install on a different DSM). This is the elbow between the throttle body and the intake manifold that I'm referring to.

Thanks again!

You need to use the sensor that came with the wideband. It's a different sensor then the oem one. Also make sure you have no exhaust leaks before the wideband as it will throw the reading off. As for map sensor placement i always have it hooked up to the manifold with it's own line. I've seen people install there IAT sensor on the elbow.

 

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

@Imfirst I'm not going to get into a back and forth pissing match with you on which is better. I'm just stating my experiences and what I've seen from other fellow dsm members on this topic. I've seen it alot and have had to move a bunch others further down stream because of it being to close and burning up sensors. And Like I said before can it be done yeah, could it last for a long time of course. But from my experience they last longer down stream on daily driven cars.

 

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

Use rear o2 sensor input (pin 75 white wire) for wiring in the output data (yellow wire) on the wideband. Then use mdp input (pin 73) for map sensor. For the gm iat sensor use the ecu iat input (pin 72). Yes you can use the elbow for the it sensor. There is a better wiring how to of these sensors on ecmtuning wiki.. And like i said before just use one of the vacuum nipple on the intake manifold for the map sensor. And find a neat place to bolt it down on.

For the gauges I like to use the cluster bezel pod that has 2 gauge holders. I use one for the wideband and the other for a mechanical boost gauge. I hate pillar pods my self.

 

[dustyboner]

gm IAT connector spliced in at MAF connector
wire on IAT connector (doesn't matter which one) > [signal] MAF pin 6 (red/blue)
wire on IAT connector (doesn't matter which one) > [ECU sensor ground] MAF pin 5 (black)


MDP pinouts
--pin1 (light green/black) [signal]
--pin2 (black) [ECU sensor ground]
--pin3 (green/yellow) [+]5v from ECU]

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[r6speed]

You guys are great!
This thread is gaining more and more very helpful information. I can't thank you guys enough.

I'm ordering/building up a lot of these parts and hope to have everything ready to start the build in about 6-8 weeks. I'll update back here with additional questions/problems I'm sure.

I'm worried about finding a tuner I can trust locally (I'm in Central Oregon area) for when the build is complete. I haven't gotten a response from English Racing in Washington (previously worked on the car and used to specialize in DSM, but seem to have switched gears a bit).
Any chance someone knows of an Oregon tuner familiar with DSM & ECMLink?
I might give it a try (I'll keep reading/learning), but I certainly need a backup plan!

 

[Hickory-NC-2Ggsx]

You could do a remote tune. I know jack at hp logic in Florida does remote tunes. And he is very good at what he does. Or you can do it yourself it's not bad at all. Scott laird on YouTube has alot of good videos on how to get everything dialed in.

 

[r6speed]

Yeah I've been watching some of Scott Lairds videos, good information.
I was thinking I might try remote tuning, but didn't know who to reach out to when the time comes. I'll give Jack at HP Logic a ring.

Do you guys agree with my FIC 1000cc high-z injector choice for my 20psi goals? I'm about to pull the trigger and I'm curious if you agree with that choice?

Thanks!