Less wheel gap = : )

[SKOLJACK]

Before:

After:

 

[Toshiro]

Looks good, what kind of setup is that?

 

[SKOLJACK]

Thanks! It's just the cheapest/worst set up you could use: A buddy of mine gave me his old factory springs (I still have my originals just in case) and all I did was cut 1.5 coils off of the front and 2 coils off of the rear, painted and installed them. This was a very easy mod, handling is much improved and the ride quality is NO different from stock except for the front struts are fairly weak and lowering the vehicle made this a little more "pronounced". I will end up replacing them soon.


My fire suit is on - Commence flaming!!!

 

[heinzanova]

I thought cutting springs was a bad idea because you no longer have the flat coil area that supports the mass weight and over time the car will start to bottom out?

 

[jtmcinder]

My fire suit is on - Commence flaming!!!

No fear. I'm right next to you with a fire extinguisher. Good job. And congrats for not listening to the Great Unwashed.

- Jtoby

 

[laserboost]

Not bad I hope your going to upgrade those in the near future though.

 

[jtmcinder]

You mean something like lowering his spring rates by paying for ProKits?

- Jtoby

 

[Black95TSIawd]

looks good bro.


jtm, what spring do you recommend for a 2g awd? just a lil over an inch drop.

 

[jtmcinder]

Budget: H&R OE Sports

Performance: GC kit with 450/375 springs <- requires good shocks ... i.e., Konis

- Jtoby

 

[leakyfaucet]

Looks better! I'm always proud of DIYers...

How much would you say it lowered the car?

Also, it might just be the camera angle, but it looks like you have some rear camber problems...

 

[SKOLJACK]

Thanks! It lowered the car at least 2.5" to 3". And yes it definitely enhanced the rear (negative) camber, Which my buddy (who works at Goodyear) is going to straighten up this Sunday. My only complaint is that I should of (at least) put new struts up front.

 

[Ghost1984]

I think it looks pretty good, mitsubishis are notorious for bad wheel gap.....good job

 

[RamenPride]

Thanks! It lowered the car at least 2.5" to 3". And yes it definitely enhanced the rear (negative) camber, Which my buddy (who works at Goodyear) is going to straighten up this Sunday.

With a drop that low I hope you realize that your buddy who works at Goodyear may not be able to get the camber within specs. You may need to buy adjustable control arms for the rear or do some cutting and welding. The fronts may be okay, but you could always just slot the top bolt hole on the strut where it attatches to the steering knuckle or get a camber kit as they are somewhat inexpensive.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Budget: H&R OE Sports


- Jtoby

too bad i've only found OE sports for 2WD

 

[blcknspo0ln]

cutting your springs is a retarded idea. My buddy didn't listen to me and I watched him take a pothole and heard the most god awful noise as his shocks decided to give up. I dont know what happened but those suckers didn't wanna pop out again i'll see you here posting in about a week for which shocks are the best to replace your blown out ones..

ok, now that I got that out...

I just got the tokico non adjustable package [ spring and shock ] for 370 shipped on eBay. best budget choice I could have made

oh and if you just lowered your 1g about 3", I dont think ANY machine [either strap or laser ] will be able to correct that. you're going to have to stick many-a-washers in that sucker to even her out.

 

[jtmcinder]

cutting your springs is a retarded idea. My buddy didn't listen to me and I watched him take a pothole and heard the most god awful noise as his shocks decided to give up.

Did it ever occur to you that your buddy either cut too much or was running the wrong shocks ... that the mistake was not in cutting the springs, per se?

No?

Well, then who, exactly, is retarded?

Cutting springs might seem low-tech and, therefore, go hand-in-hand with little planning and no pre-calculation, but, when done right, it's a perfectly sensible way to lower a car and get higher spring rates for very little money.

- Jtoby

 

[1fast97gsx]

don't they begin to flake and fall apart over time once they are cut? I thought they had to be torched to keep them strong?

 

[jtmcinder]

don't they begin to flake and fall apart over time once they are cut?

No more than the driver.

- Jtoby

 

[blcknspo0ln]

jtm,
you're proving exactly my point.When done right, it may not be such a bad thing. but in reality, how many people will take the time to do it right? not all, but most people cut their springs just for the looks and have no planning involved. I for one would never figure out where to cut my springs for an appropriate spring rate and I doubt many people could.

 

[jtmcinder]

No, I am not proving your point. You said that the idea of cutting springs is retarded. I'm saying that as long as you aren't, it's a fine thing to do. And the calculations required are not very complicated. You don't need to get it exact by solving two simultaneous equations. Rather, you can first get a ball-park idea as to how much to cut by just looking at the spring spacing (near the upper end) and comparing this to how much you want to lower the car, then calculate the increase in spring rate for that amount of deleted spring, and use the new spring rate to figure out how much less to cut than originally planned. Really not very hard at all.

If calculating the increase in spring rate is frightening you, then I have to giggle. It's really quite simple: new rate = old rate * (old length / new length). Note, however, that these lengths are wire lengths, not standing heights, and our springs are not a constant radius, so a little careful measuring is called for here. But it can't take you more than five minutes, assuming that the nasty word that we've been throwing back and forth doesn't apply to you.

- Jtoby

 

[Silver2GST]

now disrespect, to each his own, but Holy cow, is this were we have come? How can anyone suggest cutting the factory springs. i'm not even going to try and explain why, because you probly don't care. But for the sake of the rest of the world that might read this and think "hay thats sounds cool" or start treating DSMers like silly civic owners: CUTTING SPRINGS ARE THE WORST THINGS YOU CAN DO, BAR NONE, JUST TO LOOK COOL. PLEASE BOLT ON A BIG WING FIRST.

jtmcinder, don't get mad with me, this is just my opinon. it seems like your pretty much made up your mind that this is some what acceptable. fine, do it.

everyone else, call any spring manufactur (SP?), i mean any type of heavy load spring (not just auto), and ask them what they think about cutting a spring.

the internet is a misinformation wildfire ... at the vary least its a matter of safty.

 

[jtmcinder]

"Hello, Eibach? Thanks for taking my call. I've got a question. I'm thinking of saving several hundred dollars and getting spring rates that are actually better than those for the kits you sell, but I'd have to cut my stock springs to do this. Is that OK?"

Yeah, like they are going to say "yes" even if it were true.

More seriously, if there's a problem that I don't know about, I'd like to hear it.

- Jtoby

ps. when I read things like "I'm not even going to try to explain" I usually translate this to "I have no good reason to say this"; I did so in this case, at least

 

[Silver2GST]

yeah nice, well more power to ya, its your car. i think half-ass and smart-ass says it all. i'm no suspension guru, and i'd try but fail to make sense if i tried to ype it out, but i know my stuff. I know a mistake when i see one. I reffered you to a spring manufacture because they would know the techincal details and tell you factually why its bad but any one compentent with suspensions will tell you your DOWNGRADING you nice car with a broken spring for looks. i'll go log on DSMtalk and talk to guys who know there shit and bring you back plenty of info, the the nitty gritty level this is a real bad mod.

but i don't mean disrespect, do what you want. everyone else, do some research other then on this board (which i really like) cause this guys a 'wiseman', but this is not wise.

i just got tokico illuminas and tokico springs for 350 shipped. your life and those around you are worth more then a mere 350. this mod is cheap and no good. just wait and do it right.

 

[Silver2GST]

Just remember, like most everything else on your car, the suspension is a system, and must be treated accordingly.DO NOT cut your springs, it is a VERY bad idea. Springs are wound to very specific standards to be a certain rate. When you cut a spring you have no way of knowing what rate you have made them, plus heat from cutting will weaken the spring

"Unless you can mathmatically engineer how much "weight load" that you're removing from the springs, there's no way to do it right. If you cut the springs, the coils were originally heat wound & precision milled for that exact figure, even mm's off will affect the whole suspension. If you're worried about the lower center of gravity and over all handling, you're going to ruin it by cutting it. The progressive spring rates are what makes your car handle better, not just the lower center of gravity. Ever see a lowrider bouncing down the street at the most minute bump? That's what will happen."



"300lbs spring w/6 coils= 50lbs per coil. If you cut one of the coils off, it's no longer a 300lbs spring. It's a 250lbs spring that is 1 coil shorter than the original.

The reason why the spring is rated at 300lbs in the first place is b/c of it's length/height, strength of the steel/metal used to make the spring, and the progression (or lack thereof) of the coils.

Saying that the spring progressively gets stronger as the coils are cut away from it just sounds completely wrong. By this explanation:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This spring supports, say, 800 pounds of vehicle weight. 800 divided by 5 = 160 pounds per coil. Now cut off two coils. 800 divided by 3 = 266 pounds per coil. Distributing the same weight among fewer coils makes each one travel further for a given amount of suspension travel, which is what makes the overall spring pressure/rate stiffer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are also saying that the 2 coils that were cut will support 800lbs as well. I seriously doubt that b/c you're not adding nothing to the spring....you're taking away from it.

As far as the ride quality that you're getting with your Talon, I would raise the car .25 inches at a time until the bouciness goes away. It's basically riding on the bumpstops, which is just as dangerous as cutting your stock springs. You'll also destroy your shocks/struts faster the way that you are using them."



Most aftermarket springs have less coils b/c they are for lowering the car and the center of gravity, not b/c they are cut stock springs.

I'm not saying that you thought that aftermarket springs are nothing more than cut stock springs, but think about it. If all we had to do is cut the stock springs of a car in order to lower it at a higher spring rate, you really think that there would be such thing as aftermarket springs? Everyone would just cut their springs and tell GC and Eibach to go screw.

There is a huge difference in cutting your springs and buying aftermarket ones. Cutting aftermarket springs is even more dangerous....

....I would suggest to anyone thinking of cutting their springs to visit the SE-R.net site. Mike Kojima writes for SCC mag, is an active member of the Sentra.net and SE-R.net sites/mailing lists and is smart as hell. Look his name up in their archives and see what he has to say about the subject. He's a pro. Argue with his logic (which is backed by serveral collage degrees) if you seriously wish to persue this subject.

Prove me wrong, and I will willingly accept it. Until then, take your own chances w/your life and car.



Gotta love those archives.

http://www.dsm.org/archives/1997/09...902.txt/16.html

While he suggests that cutting your stock springs is 'ok' ... for our cars, the added spring rate generated by cutting a coil or so off the stockers hasn't increased enough to prevent bottoming. Maybe if our cars had six inches of suspension travel, cutting may be benificial, but as far as DSM's are concerned, stick with aftermarket lowering springs and only use high quality performance shocks for all but the mildest of lowering springs.

I've done it all... I've cut stock springs, I've cut lowering springs. Every time I've done it, I've regretted it. It will definatly make your car handle and ride like poo.



Want more? should i continue to spoon feed you? i just rushed those from a few posts i looked over, i can find better.

 

[Silver2GST]

The illustration I used was lacking in that it did not sufficiently emphasize that each coil will now deflect, or travel further, in a cut spring vs. its uncut counterpart. The additional stiffness comes from the fact that for a given amount of travel, the movement that was distributed among five coils is now only spread among three. Each coil now will compress more per inch of travel than before, making the spring stiffer. Study the geometry and you'll see what this all means. It is impossible to reduce a spring's rate by modifying it (excluding destroying its temper through heat, which is so wrong as to not be a part of this discussion). The result is always an increase in the stiffness per travel when coils are removed.

by Bill Hahn of Hahn Racecraft (he posts on dsmtalk)



This subject bothered me so much that I contacted Mike Kojima and asked him to look at the thread for me and give me his take on the matter:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Bill Hahn of Hahn Racecraft is correct in his posts. ... Going too low will damage the shocks also."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Really? do you like the tread on your tires?