1G Leak around oil pan, likely sources?

[XC92]

There's an oil (or possibly steering fluid) leak around the oil pan near the driver's side area. I'm not sure if it's the pan seal, oil cooler, pump or something else. I cleaned everything earlier this year and the car only has a few hundred miles on it since, so it's a fair-sized leak that I need to address ASAP.

The oil level hasn't dropped noticeably, so I'm more concerned about the leaking oil messing something up or simply attracting dirt, or some part that's failing and needs to be replaced ASAP.

Here are some photos:

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Btw, in that last photo, that sad-looking rubber tube in the bottom right coming off the oil cooler, that connects to the cooling, not lubrication system and carries coolant, not oil, right? Could it be the source of the leak even though the colors don't match up (coolant's green-yellow)?

And what about that bracket right in the center? It looks like something's supposed to be attacked to the bolt hole with the impression of a missing washer on it. Did something fall out along the way, what might it be and is it crucial?

I'm going to be draining the oil, dropping and cleaning the oil pan and replacing some gaskets soon, so I might as well take care of everything down them. Could use some cleaning up, derusting and paint too. High heat paint, I assume?

 

[Kryndon]

If you really cleaned everything and did a few hundred miles, that's a significant oil leak. 99% sure it's engine oil, all you need to do is press your finger up against those soaked bolt heads and then give it the good ole sniff. But that looks like engine oil.

First culprit would be a loosely installed oil filter; they tend to seep through the seal and it starts puddling under the sandwich plate (you are correct, that little rubber line is COOLANT running into the oil sandwich plate and cools the oil).

Your turbo CHRA as well as return pipes look dry, and towards the top of the block it looks dry also, which means the leak is from low-down. I do not think it's the oil pan/gasket. The airstream and motion of the car tends to swirl the oil up around the oil pan and around the oil filter housing. I strongly suggest degreasing all those areas and going for a spin. When the car is cold, grab the oil filter and see if you can tighten it just a tad more BY HAND, but not too much of course.

Lastly, that empty bolt hole/bracket you mentioned; that's where your downpipe also bolts to. There is a neck-shaped bracket (usually rusted or missing) that attaches to there.

 

[XC92]

Ah, yes, you're right, that's where the single bolt connects the top of the exhaust pipe to the block. I disconnected the pipe to drop the trans and noticed the missing bolt, and will replace it when it goes back on. I assume that it's to relieve downward or side stress from the exhaust manifold, especially when the car is in motion and hits bumps, holes, etc.

As for the leak, thanks for the feedback. I tightened the filter pretty tight when I installed it. There was a similar leak before I replaced it, so this has likely been going on a while. I wonder if an extra filter gasket from an old oil change is still in there, where the mechanic forgot to remove it? Looking at the filter, does it seem like it's sticking out too much, by whatever the gasket thickness is?

There's no way to run the engine let alone drive the car right now since the trans is out. I was going to drop the pan as I don't think it's ever been done and there's probably old sludge in there I should clean up, so I'll have a look at the filter housing at that time. I'm also going to replace some oil line gaskets, even though they dont seem to be the source of the leak.

But when everything's put back together I'll clean everything up and run the engine a bit and see where any leak emerges from, if it's still leaking. Eventually it should reveal itself.

Btw, when I did an oil change a few hundred miles ago at the same time I cleaned everything up, I used a new OEM filter and some generic Walmart synth oil, since I intended to use it as "sacrificial" oil to kind of loosen the old gunk and sludge before doing another oil change with high-quality oil (I bought some Mobil 1 Extended).

Two questions though. One, since it was just a few hundred miles can I keep the existing filter until the next oil change, or should I change it especially since it was a while since the last oil change and it's probably pretty dirty?

Also, my dad was born in Bulgaria, way back when, in Sofia. I've always wanted to visit. Someday I will.

And two, since it was a while since the last change (the car sat for 5-6 years due to unrelated issues), should I go for another round of "sacrificial" oil and run that a few more hundred miles before dumping that and then putting in the good stuff? And if so should I keep the existing filter in place till the "real" oil change?

 

[Dericsh]

I agree that it looks like oil, but I wanted to add that if you ever have such a mess that you really can’t tell then you could put something like this or similar uv dye in one fluid or the other (not both). If it glows after a drive then it’ll be the fluid you put the dye in. This way you will rule out oil or power steering.

 

[XC92]

I agree that it looks like oil, but I wanted to add that if you ever have such a mess that you really can’t tell then you could put something like this or similar uv dye in one fluid or the other (not both). If it glows after a drive then it’ll be the fluid you put the dye in. This way you will rule out oil or power steering.

Thanks. I'd always wondered what that dye was for? I assume it has no ill effects?

 

[Dericsh]

Thanks. I'd always wondered what that dye was for? I assume it has no ill effects?

We used it at the dealer I worked for occasionally when it was necessary. Never had any trouble related to it. Wouldn’t hurt to do some more research, I guess, but it’s not a whole lot going in there.

Also, you mentioned possibly double gasketing the oil filter. I would highly doubt that. From experience, it leaks ALOT! wouldn’t be drivable!

 

[Kryndon]

Hey, so you're technically Bulgarian! Sofia is a dump, save yourself the trouble and if you really do end up coming over, come to the East coast; that's where most of the BG DSMs are and you'll get some nice cheap beaches and resorts to see.

Firstly, the oil filters do not have separate gaskets on these cars. Maybe you just hadn't noticed hwen you changed it last time. Each oil filter has a rubber o-ring which is part of it. Oil can leak through there if the o-ring is torn (tightened dry), too loose or if the actual face of the sandwich plate is warped (it happens).

Walmart synth oil, since I intended to use it as "sacrificial" oil to kind of loosen the old gunk and sludge before doing another oil change with high-quality oil

This is exactly hwat you shouldn't do on old engines like these, and it's very likely the synth oil unblocked a previously sealed leak point. It's not 100% a certainty but there's a very high chance, both internally and externally. Oil treatments and short-term use synth oils tend to do more harm than good in our cases, most experienced mechanics will vouch for this. Your intentions were good, but they were not executed in the most optimal way. A better, safer way would be to use a few cheap bottles of half-synth 10w-40 and draining once right after a spirited drive, then once again after it fully settles over 1-2 days sitting cold. Then you pour good quality 10w-40 or whatever your climate and driving habits recommend.

Lastly, if I'm getting this right, the last actual oil change + OEM filter was 5 years ago? If so, you will need fresh oil (either "sacrificial" or regular) and a new filter. Oil doesn't degrade just with mileage; it oxidizes with time and absorbs other contaminants. It don't matter if you put a $200 oil 10 years ago and never ran the car; it still needs to get chucked. Detroit diesel 60s on the other hand wont give a flying f*** and they'll start and do another million miles on that same oil...

 

[XC92]

Actually, the car sat for 5-6 years with the engine barely run, and as soon as I fixed it up and got it running again, I dumped the old oil and put the generic synth in it and a new OEM filter, which was several hundred miles and 5-6 months ago. Car hasn't been run much since because of trans issues that I've been dealing with and will hopefully soon resolve.

But I'm about to dump and replace that soon, after I clean out the oil pan and put everything back on again. I'm just wondering if I should do another "sacrificial" oil change or two, then once as much of the old gunk is out, put in the good stuff, plus a new OEM filter, and if I can keep using the OEM filter I put it a few hundred miles ago until then.

As for leaking seals, seems like the right solution is to just replace them instead of using thicker or non-synth oil. I've already got a new rear seal ready to go in since the flywheel's off, and am soon going to replace the timing belt so I can replace all the seals there while I'm at it. Any other seals to replace? The valve cover's got a leak so that's got to be replaced. I assume I can leave the head gasket in for now. I did a compression test a few months ago and it checked out fine, well within spec. What else?

Sorry to hear that Sofia's not so nice. I'd heard it referred to as the "Paris on Eastern Europe". Was that truer many years ago? I still think I'd visit just because it's the capital and of historical, cultural and family importance, but I would like to also see some of the countryside and Black Sea region, which I heard is quite nice. Varna, right? I heard that Plovdiv is worth a visit too, and the Stara Planina mountains. My dad's still kicking and would like to go too, but he's pretty frail and I'm not sure he could handle it. So there's a DSM communinity there? Nice.