LC-1 WB Confusion?

[DSMDEMON93]

Hey guys, so I recently set up my Lc-1 system. I am running a WB Rear 02 setup with a custom placed bung before the rear 02. I am trying to set it up, but am a little lost. I have it hooked up per ECMwiki instructions, but I am trying to log it via TechEdge WB on Link v3. I have the value for analog 2 as 0v-9:1 5v-19:1...but what should analog 1 value be(DB gauge)?

I set it up the same both 9:1-19:1, but its off? It sits better at the 7.35-22.0:1 default setup, but only for idle and cruise, when you hit WOT, it will drop down to 8-7:1...and one time to 7.4:1 and flashed.

So the question is, How should it be set up if I am NOT doing a narrowband sim? Just, Gauge, Logging WB, through the TechEdge WB feature? Or should I use the LinWB feature?

P.S. I am using version 3.15.

Any input I would STRONGLY appreciate!

 

[MY1GDSM]

THIS post should cover almost everything your asking and would be good to check to just make sure you have everything wired up correctly... .

Regardless the DB gauge is expecting the normal 0-5v output for 7.35-22.0:1 that the LC-1 comes with set as default.

Posting a log using the linwideband to log would help a lot... As you can change the range of it for the min/max lambada and voltage... . Also, someone would actually be able to let you know if you have everything set correctly by looking at a log.

 

[DSMDEMON93]

Ok I see. Well I have a log I can present to see if its alright.

Currently, my settings are
Analog 1: 7.35:1---22.39:1

Analog 2:9:1----19:1


And The log using the Techedge WB.

UPDATE: The gauge at idle reads really well, my computer is a tad slower than the LC1, but the same numbers appear. BUT, at WOT...it jumps down to 7.4, and starts flashing. Why? My uego I had before would hit 10.8:1 with the same setup.

 

[nocardick]

Why are you using the techedge WB? The Lc-1 is setup in V3, so just use the lc-1 log item

 

[DSMDEMON93]

Why are you using the techedge WB? The Lc-1 is setup in V3, so just use the lc-1 log item

Precisely, I was following instruction per ECMwiki, directing me to use this module.

 

[boost97gst]

Hes right, there is an lc1wb option in ecuinputs i think. Im having something similiar but not nearly as severe. Id say your grounds are jacked up or voltage fluctuations are causing it to flash 7.4. Thats what its supposed to flash right when started when its heating up. Its like power is coming on-off then back on really quick.
My problem is my db gauge reads about 1 richer than my lc1wb logged value. Really not sure which to trust but i gotta go with link. I know its getting the 0-5 volt signal same as the gauge. And since v3 has lc1 compatibility, i think i have to trust it.

 

[nocardick]

Precisely, I was following instruction per ECMwiki, directing me to use this module.

It also says that you can skip those steps entirely if you log the lc-1wb value. Then all you need to do is use the lc-1 software to reprogram the output to the gauge to match the wideband

 

[DSMDEMON93]

I think I got it! I did a Free Air Calibration with the SAME settings as:
Analog 1: 7.35---22.39
Analog 2: 9---19

But changed to Innovate Lc1 setting in Link...at Wot now, I'm getting readings of 8.9-9:1, which I rear should be in the ballpark of untuned rich.

 

[deflator]

No it is still not right. The LC1 input in link wants the stock LC1 settings, 7.35-22.39. Change both outputs back to their factory configs and then try logging.

In fact, I would not use output 1 at all as it is a narrowband sim. Wire both the gauge and the ecu input into the LC1's output 2 (brown wire)

 

[boost97gst]

No it is still not right. The LC1 input in link wants the stock LC1 settings, 7.35-22.39. Change both outputs back to their factory configs and then try logging.

In fact, I would not use output 1 at all as it is a narrowband sim. Wire both the gauge and the ecu input into the LC1's output 2 (brown wire)

I remember trying that cause i was having problems running lmconfig. It did not work for me. Only the gauge would read, link wouldnt even see it. What your saying IS the simplest and best way for sure though, if it works for you. I ended up having to but a new usb-9pin and finally got lmconfig to run. I set it up per the ecm wiki. Im going to run it again to try and get my numbers to line up i think.

 

[MY1GDSM]

No it is still not right. The LC1 input in link wants the stock LC1 settings, 7.35-22.39. Change both outputs back to their factory configs and then try logging.

In fact, I would not use output 1 at all as it is a narrowband sim. Wire both the gauge and the ecu input into the LC1's output 2 (brown wire)

NO don't do that ^ OP...

It's rather simple to set both outputs to 0v = 7.35 5v = 22.39

as long as your using the right version of the LMprogramer if it doesn't work your using the wrong version or might have something left over from a previous install, The newer versions don't work and will show that the settings have been saved but they will still be set wrong.

OP just set them both the same and run one wire to the ECU and one to the gauge(as there are) Use the linwideband setting if the gauge and link don't match using the lc-1 default in link.

If you have to use the linwideband set the settings as this below for the range above the gauge uses that way there is no mix up of whcih output is being logged where... .

Also if you post another log do it with the car off and start the log asap when you key the car on but not started it should give you a a bit more info in the log of the range of AFR and volatage... if things are still not lining up you can adjust the LinW/b settings But more then likely you have a grounding or wiring issue... .

Also where is your w/b sensor located? and do you have the Led hooked up for fault codes? if you go VERY rich too fast the sensor can't tell whether it's a Sensor timing error(over heating sensor) or if it just went overly rich to fast...
Your old AEM gauge isn't that smart and wouldn't even tell you there is/was a issue.


EDIT:

If your gauge is not lining up with the Default setting from the Drop down menu

DON'T expect it to with these settings below

They are just a Starting point to adjust... . Look at a log of the car off and compare your Raw Voltage for starters

 

[boost97gst]

THANK YOU MY1G, god your awesome. I can fix mine this weekend!

 

[MY1GDSM]

Glad I could help


Just to summarize

Install for DB gauge & Logging with LC-1 placed in rear o2 spot or new bung

Red wire – 12v accessory power source ~ I like to use a empty fuse with something like this pigtail fuse if your handy with a solder gun you can make them fairly easy.
Blue wire – GOOD chassis ground
White wire - ECU sensor ground (pin 92)
Brown – ECU pin 75 ECU Pinout
Yellow – DB gauge's white wire
(You Must reprogram Analog Out 1 values to match Analog Out 2 values using LM Config 3.15. Download here MUST BE THIS Version not anything that came with it or it won't save the settings
Black – Calibration push button to monitoring LED to ground

The second output is programmed to output between 0 V for an AFR of 7.35 (gasoline) and 5.0V for an AFR of 22.39 you want both set to this and Log in ECMlink the wideband as Lc-1 from the Drop down on the Rear o2 or pick Linearwideband and set it as above.


ALSO TAKE NOTE, I can't stress this enough... .

If at all possible SOLDER all connections most of the issues I see from things like this(with the LC-1) are from bad grounds an shotty connections as the Lc-1 if ground properly should have ZERO issues.

 

[nocardick]

NO don't do that ^ OP...

It's rather simple to set both outputs to 0v = 7.35 5v = 22.39

as long as your using the right version of the LMprogramer if it doesn't work your using the wrong version or might have something left over from a previous install, The newer versions don't work and will show that the settings have been saved but they will still be set wrong.

OP just set them both the same and run one wire to the ECU and one to the gauge(as there are) Use the linwideband setting if the gauge and link don't match using the lc-1 default in link.

If you have to use the linwideband set the settings as this below for the range above the gauge uses that way there is no mix up of whcih output is being logged where... .

Also if you post another log do it with the car off and start the log asap when you key the car on but not started it should give you a a bit more info in the log of the range of AFR and volatage... if things are still not lining up you can adjust the LinW/b settings But more then likely you have a grounding or wiring issue... .

Also where is your w/b sensor located? and do you have the Led hooked up for fault codes? if you go VERY rich too fast the sensor can't tell whether it's a Sensor timing error(over heating sensor) or if it just went overly rich to fast...
Your old AEM gauge isn't that smart and wouldn't even tell you there is/was a issue.

I tried using the 3.15 software and its giving me a ton of problems. If I get both outputs set the same either the gauge will work correctly and ecmlink input will get stuck at one value or the reverse happens. Maybe I'll try uninstalling all the software and doing it again

Do you setup output 1 as the same factory default as output 2 if out 1 is being ran to the gauge, or do I use the ecmlink wiki settings?

 

[MY1GDSM]

See the post above

 

[boost97gst]

Yup, i soldered all my wires in the first time. I know how nasty bad connections can be to troubleshoot, hell i see it at my job all the time.

 

[DSMDEMON93]

NO don't do that ^ OP...

It's rather simple to set both outputs to 0v = 7.35 5v = 22.39

as long as your using the right version of the LMprogramer if it doesn't work your using the wrong version or might have something left over from a previous install, The newer versions don't work and will show that the settings have been saved but they will still be set wrong.

OP just set them both the same and run one wire to the ECU and one to the gauge(as there are) Use the linwideband setting if the gauge and link don't match using the lc-1 default in link.

If you have to use the linwideband set the settings as this below for the range above the gauge uses that way there is no mix up of whcih output is being logged where... .

Also if you post another log do it with the car off and start the log asap when you key the car on but not started it should give you a a bit more info in the log of the range of AFR and volatage... if things are still not lining up you can adjust the LinW/b settings But more then likely you have a grounding or wiring issue... .

Also where is your w/b sensor located? and do you have the Led hooked up for fault codes? if you go VERY rich too fast the sensor can't tell whether it's a Sensor timing error(over heating sensor) or if it just went overly rich to fast...
Your old AEM gauge isn't that smart and wouldn't even tell you there is/was a issue.

Wow, talk about answering all my questions at ONCE. thanks! Also, my sensor is located before the flex section on my DP. So between the front/rear 02.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Again, just glad I could help

The gauge is just flashing more then likely, because how rich you are. Though if you don't have the LED hooked up it wouldn't be a bad idea just to rule out any other issues as it will flash out the fault codes if it has a problem.

 

[boost97gst]

MY1G, ive been tuning under false afrs. Lots and lots of mafcomps up through the 2600hz range. So repetetive. SO, now that i know im running 1 point rich, could that have hypothetically caused knock? I have evomod1 tables loaded and target 11.1:1 but in reality i was at around mid high 9s! That is stupid rich im aware and im hoping thats why the knock is presenting itself. Rich knock is what they call it right? Ive got sooo much work. Every mafcomp has to be redone, whomp, whomp
Sorry to jack thread, but figured it may be valuable info to others as well, im not going to ppost a log as it wouldnt help anything now that i know logged value is lean.

 

[MY1GDSM]

Hard to say what all could be your problem with out taking a look for myself... .

 

[boost97gst]

Alright, with my 10 mins of free time i have this week, i finally ran lmconfig 3.15 again. This time i programmed(and verified it memorized it) BOTH anolog 1 and 2 the same. First i tried the stock 7.39-22.39 on both. After wb started displaying im STILL off about 1 point?? I then tried 9.00-19.00 as my values, same problem. I really need to know what my next step should be. Theres a disc that came with it call lmprogrammer iirc. But ive heard with that version everytime i input values they will revert to stock. Thats why they recommend lmconfig 3.15. O2 is in stock front location has about 1k miles on it and ive recently done another free air cal just to be sure my gauge is correct. This wouldnt be that much of a problem im WOT cause i could account for the error, but in closed loop its foing to target 14.7 which according to my gauge is actually somewhere(jumps around at idle) between 13.7 and 14.3. Daaaaaaaaaamn it, so close to soooo much whp but this little shit is killing me!

Edit: if it matters, even after i programmed it with the 22.39 lean value when i turn my key to on position, let it heat cycle and gauge stops flashing, it still reads like before: 21.4. Should it be reading 22.4?

 

[nocardick]

Alright, with my 10 mins of free time i have this week, i finally ran lmconfig 3.15 again. This time i programmed(and verified it memorized it) BOTH anolog 1 and 2 the same. First i tried the stock 7.39-22.39 on both. After wb started displaying im STILL off about 1 point?? I then tried 9.00-19.00 as my values, same problem. I really need to know what my next step should be. Theres a disc that came with it call lmprogrammer iirc. But ive heard with that version everytime i input values they will revert to stock. Thats why they recommend lmconfig 3.15. O2 is in stock front location has about 1k miles on it and ive recently done another free air cal just to be sure my gauge is correct. This wouldnt be that much of a problem im WOT cause i could account for the error, but in closed loop its foing to target 14.7 which according to my gauge is actually somewhere(jumps around at idle) between 13.7 and 14.3. Daaaaaaaaaamn it, so close to soooo much whp but this little shit is killing me!

Edit: if it matters, even after i programmed it with the 22.39 lean value when i turn my key to on position, let it heat cycle and gauge stops flashing, it still reads like before: 21.4. Should it be reading 22.4?

I'm in the same boat as you except I'm not running in the front 02 position or using my WB for narrowband simulation. The software is such crap, even 3.15, I've had to reprogram it so many times just to get my gauge to read semi-correct values. I would click on the analog output 1 tab, and then the analog out 2 to the ecu would just lock up and not change, and the reverse would happen if I tried the process the opposite way. I found that you have to delete the 3.15 from your computer then re-download 3.15, and only hit program once, or everything will screw up and be out of wack. After I did it this way I got the gauge to work but the value on the gauge is off a few tenths from the value that ecmlink is seeing, just like what you are experiencing. Do you think it has something to do with the time it takes Ecmlink to process the value and how long it takes the gauge to receive it? Maybe there is a time difference that is causing us to see different values between the gauge and ecmlink?

 

[boost97gst]

In your case: absolutely. There has to be some delay in the software(link) as opposed to a simple gauge which virtually has zero processing going on. If i were a few tenths off i would be happy but my idle, dialed in, is low 14's high 13's. Thats too rich and even worse is i have to go crazy not looking at how bad my wbfactors are. Cause they WILL be off if i trust my gauge and i guess i have to. This Fn thing just started acting up too. God its frustrating after all those pulls getting my WOT semi decent just to have to do it all over again. Im going to giv eit another shot this weekend and then call the local dyno shop. They can hook up a wb at the tailpipe with an attachment and tell exactly what my true afrs are. If the gauge is reading bad on stock settings im calling innovative. Ask for a replacement unit or something. I feel ## pain bro!

 

[MY1GDSM]

It you measured the Raw voltage from the gauge directly I bet they are putting out the voltage they are suppose to... People need to stop blaming the company that makes probably one of the Best wide bands for our cars and take into consideration the environment that they are using the electronics... .

There are SO many other factors that nobody even thinks about with stuff like this You could easily have a cold joint on something you soldered, used multiple lugs on a singal ground( or just a bad ground) or your ECU's grounding could be less then optimal... .

Using Linearwideband and adjusting things to match is your best bet though most people don't understand how do it properly or never hooked things up optimally to begin with(and that is the real problem)... .

Before you say "absolutely" it would help to understand how the logging works in Ecmlink a bit better along with the things above or anyone that does have a problem with the gauges and it is some kind of problem It's not like innovate won't address it just get a RMA from them if all else fails

But in the probably 30-40 or more lc-1 widebands I've seen just in the last 6 months with people logging them the ones having issues it was User error(or install error) as the route problem for logging maybe one that had a issue out of the box, I can't say that for any other wideband EVERY AEM I've delt with didn't log right and the logging rates ARE VERY Sub par (from the gauge as doesn't update as fast something like 24 revolutions of the crank later ) ... .

FYI, also I would trust a W/b in a bung 4+ feet up LONG before something in the tail pipe

/rant

 

[boost97gst]

Well, im not blaming innovative at all yet. I have an oscilliscope so this weekend im going to actually look at the raw voltage and determine if the gauge is good. Since this problem happened suddenly, or so it seems, i am going to re solder my grounds and test that too. If all else fails, the gauge is ok and reading correctly, then i will do what you said and run it as linwideband in link and get it lined up that way.