Latest 14b time

[davejcb]

Phil,

What the hell HAVE you done the car then?

 

[GRNDSM]

>Why no coolant lines on the turbo? Is it just not necessary since
>you are just going a 1/4 at a time?

I was supposed to swap in a loaner FP Red at the track between the runs, so I removed all of the water line to make that swap as easy as possible. Unfortunately, this turbo never made it to the track…

>Second, whats you opinion on running the oil feed to the turbo
>from the back of the head or the oil filter housing? which do u
>think is better?

Both have good and bad points them. Stock location seems work well, but if you ever look at the oil pressure at that point, you will be amazed at just how little it is at idle (as low as 5psi). That might not be enough for oil only cooled turbos. That makes oil filter housing a better place to get oil.

However, that location might give you a bit too much oil pressure. GT series turbos do like to see more than 60psi or so. And that places often sees over 80psi during cold starts.

So depending on which turbo you have you can use ether location.

>So, if I can best you again, you'll never bolt a 14b back on???

Right... Hardly . Come on, competition is good. If you never ran 12.02, last September, I probably would have been happy with 12.04 that I did a couple of weeks ago. And if I haven’t just ran 11.84, you wouldn’t be trying to get into 11.7’s anywhere near as hard as you will be doing. I then, will have to bolt it on again to run mid 11’s… and so on... So it is a good thing!

>I don't have a FPR or AFC and am still running the stock MAF,
>injectors, intercooler and piping, as well as a 2.5" DP and test.

You should at least get the SAFC… It is a very “basic” mod in now days and I am not sure what you are trying to prove by not using it… Look at the bottom line, people do not want to see fastest “14b with out SAFC”, so you are not really helping your cause…

Leon
RR

 

[Phil1320]

not much:

K&N, MBC, ported mani, O2 w/external dump, 2.5" DP/test, 3" ATR cat-back, Walbro Fuel pump, underdrive crank pulley, ACT 2600 clutch. That's it for the mods. It is the original long block with 78,300 miles.


That's it man....

Phil1320

 

[Phil1320]

this is pretty funny.....I thought you were done with the 14b a long time ago......I knew you couldn't handle being second. But, this was an actual goal of mine a long time ago where you kind of pass it off as another day at the track when in reality that is not the case. As far as being the fastest without an AFC or any other mod, I think you're wrong there. There is no doubt in my mind that I have gone the quickest and fastest of any DSM with the least mods done. I know many of the people out there dig that, for sure. Hell, I beat your time last year with mostly stock parts. Remember, totally stock longblock, balance shafts still intact, etc. are distinct advantages you have. Your higher comp numbers are another advantage. You use a studderbox to launch, I don't....I could go on. Are you running through an exhaust, or dumping off the o2? I'm running through full exhaust.

I have an AFC in my closet, it's been there a while, I'm sure it will find it's way into the car before too long. By the way, I did give you big props for your runs, but haven't heard anything by the way of, "hey thanks man." But, that's cool, that's just you.

Oh yeah, I'm not shootin for 11.7's, just an 11.83. Stay tuned...


Phil1320

 

[GRNDSM]

>But, this was an actual goal of mine a long time ago where
>you kind of pass it off as another day at the track when in
>reality that is not the case.

I do all types of racing: Drag, AutoX, Oval track. I am a very competitive person and try to do my best to be #1 at all of those types of racing (sometimes I succeed, other times I don't). Drag racing on a 14b might be your #1 and only type of racing, but to me that is just one, VERY SMALL facet of what I do. It started out as something I tried one day for fun when braking-in a new engine and turned into a record that took over 2 years to be break. So, while it was NOT a big deal when it started, I certainly have much more interest in it now, as my name is often mentioned in 14b conversations.

>As far as being the fastest without an AFC or any other mod,
>I think you're wrong there.

To me, that is just like using “pump gas” excuse. You come, you race, you put down some time slips, everything else is secondary… Well, not everything, using N20 not included

>I beat your time last year with mostly stock parts.

That was/is a great achievement and I do recall saying so at the time.

>Remember, totally stock longblock

Right about now, I whish that I had a stock longblock…

>Your higher comp numbers are another advantage.

See if you still think so when you increase your compression… I know I thought it would be a huge advantage, so far, it has proved to be otherwise…

>Are you running through an exhaust, or dumping off the o2?

What does it matter when my external WG stays closed?

When I ran 113.8 (last fall) I used internally routed HKS WG and 110k mile short block. Right now, I have higher CR new block and external dump WG, yet I haven’t been able to do better than 113.5 mph. Still think that it is a huge advantage?

>By the way, I did give you big props for your runs, but haven't
>heard anything by the way of, "hey thanks man." But, that's cool,
>that's just you.

My, my aren’t we touchy… Nothing like making a friendly rivalry into to a personal attack… First: I have been answering 5-6 e-mails/messages per hour in a few hours that I have been back from the track (this is in between of taking care of my kids after a long day away from them). Most of the messages have been of “Congratulations” variety and lots of question requiring lengthy responses. I am usually very good about thanking people for their kind words, but I can slip-up every now and then. Second: when dealing with forums, I deliberately do not respond to EVERY single “Congrats” post, because that would be waste of forum’s space. Instead, I save it up for an all-inclusive THANK YOU for everyone who have congratulated me.

I thought that I would give people at least a full day or so, but I will expedite it:

Thank you everyone!

Leon
RR

 

[Phil1320]

..it is what it is.....I have made no excuses...I am very happy with consistent 12.0 performance at my level. Wether you think so or not, in the mods dept., we are worlds apart. Wether or not you think you are benifitting from certain mods or not is irrelevant, because they are there. Just like having a NOS bottle in the car and claiming you didn't squeeze, the bottle is there, the assumption is that it was used. Glad to hear you do more than just drag race, that's great. With my Talon, drag race is the main purpose. The reason I started trying to make the stock turbo faster is because I didn't have all the crazy money to go ahead and mod the car to high potential all in one shot. So, I worked with what I had, a small tweak here or there. 2.83 seconds shaved off the stock ET, and 22.32 MPH gain over stock trap, not an easy feat. No big deal about the thanks thing, I thought you and I might be a little more direct than that considering we are the only two DSM's in history to come this far on the 14b. Anyway, enjoy your spot at the top...........


.........just don't get too comfortable

Phil1320

 

[Victory]

Those are awesome numbers Leon.

Just for comparison. We had our Street/Strip car out the other week.

12.56 @ 114[/B]mph on a 14B 1.9 60ft
12.2 @ 111mph 1.7 60ft

We were running 17 to 18 lbs of boost with no knock. My guess is that we could have tuned the car a bit more. EGT's were only at 1350. Not very aggressive. I should mention here his car is full weight, roughly 3200lbs.

We've got our turbo and the intercooler going in this coming week.

Your car is a monster!

Scott R Belcastro
Victory Performance Equipment

 

[DSMu4ia]

Leon,

Do me a favor, run the 14b once more.

But take the wing off the back (if you ran with it before). Curt got a few mph from the regular stock Talon wing when he was high 120-mph range, so I see no reason why you wouldn't get a mph or two with your "little picnic table" .

 

[talonted_one]

does anyoen know what the record for a 2G with a 14b is?

 

[GRNDSM]

>But take the wing off the back (if you ran with it before). Curt
>got a few mph from the regular stock Talon wing when he was
>high 120-mph range, so I see no reason why you wouldn't get a
> mph or two with your "little picnic table" .

Assuming that this is true, what would it give me? Even if I pick up 2mph due to better aerodynamics at the top end, that would have minimal effect on my ET.

Now, if would have added enough power to boost my trap speed by 2mph (with the same aerodynamics), that would be a different story.

Have you ever noticed that you can miss a 4th gear and still run virtually the same ET, but with much slower trap speed? Well, improved aerodynomics will have very similar effect.

Besides, I like my picnic table .

Having said that. I am working on getting a fiberglass rear hatch with Speed Glass (~40lbs of weight savings). That will be my “drag race only” rear deck with no spoiler. But that is a few weeks away .

>does any one know what the record for a 2G with a 14b is?

My friend has ran 12.54 with just these mods: fuel pump, K&N intake, BR I/C pipe, BR 2.5” downpipe and generic 2.5” exhaust, Starion I/C (waste of his time, IMHO ), ported exhaust parts, 1G engine (crankwalk victom). But that is it, not even an AFC (DSM Link is on its way).

Leon
RR

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
>But take the wing off the back (if you ran with it before). Curt
>got a few mph from the regular stock Talon wing when he was
>high 120-mph range, so I see no reason why you wouldn't get a
> mph or two with your "little picnic table" .

Assuming that this is true, what would it give me? Even if I pick up 2mph due to better aerodynamics at the top end, that would have minimal effect on my ET.

Now, if would have added enough power to boost my trap speed by 2mph (with the same aerodynamics), that would be a different story.

Have you ever noticed that you can miss a 4th gear and still run virtually the same ET, but with much slower trap speed? Well, improved aerodynomics will have very similar effect.

Besides, I like my picnic table .
Leon
RR

I would just like to see just how FAST you can run, and if the drag is much noticeable at under 120mph traps.

If you could get to 115-116, that's as fast as most 16g guys have ever ran, quite an accomplishment, but hell, it's a huge accomplishment currently, serious congrats are in order.

 

[kpt4321]

Phil, isn't your car quite a bit lighter than Leon's?

You guys both run about the same trap speeds, you just get there different ways. If you get all the mods that Leon has and you don't that you keep talking about, your trap speeds will go up. If Leon strips his car down to the weight of yours, his trap speed will go up. You'll be back where you started, except you'll get there faster.


....Kyle T.
93 TSi AWD "TURBO4"
14b - 12.* @ 108 <--feeling insignificant

 

[Phil1320]

.considering what Leon says, his race weight appears to be 130lbs heavier than mine. To my knowledge, Leon's best trap is 113.8 where mine is 113.1. Close. I think the difference in mods is more of a factor than the weight difference. I still have more weight to come out, believe it or not, and soon I will throw some mods at the car and see what works and what doesn't. Thanks for asking,

Phil1320

 

[GRNDSM]

Yea well… When I ran 12.04 at 113.55 my car was around 3000lbs (it also had a LOT fewer mods). That puts it quite a bit more power than what you are running. Unfortunately, that also puts it at a bit more power than what I am running right now with 100lbs less and much more mods (including a new motor with higher compression)…

So all of the weight/hp formulas do not seem to work very well in this case. Otherwise, just take a look at all of the other cars with stock factory weight cars running 108-110 trap speeds on the 14b’s. Their hp numbers put both of us to shame .

>soon I will throw some mods at the car and see what works and what doesn't.

I can’t wait to see you try it! (honestly!) Aside from extra tuning aids (like SAFC and adjustable FPR), I do not expect you gaining much form the “other” mods. But I guess we will see.

Leon
RR

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
I do not expect you gaining much form the “other” mods. But I guess we will see.

Leon
RR

We shall see indeed!

If Phil is okay with it (Which at this point I think he is), we at Victor Research would like to develop a few parts for the car and see if we can crack that 11.80 nut. Seeing that he is at 265awhp and looking at your dyno numbers, I think there is some more in it. (For reference I watched a 511whp car only lose 10whp going from FWD to AWD in a matter of an hour on the same dyno.)

This is all in good fun of course. Nothing like a little friendly competition to push the envelope.

P.S. What ratio 1st gear are you using? Just curious if you have a taller gear.

 

[GRNDSM]

>What ratio 1st gear are you using? Just curious if you have a taller gear

Not sure if this was directed at me or Phil, but I am using stock DSM 1st gear. If you read my other posts, you will see that I really hate GVR4 1st gear.

Of course, I only had a chance to use it on ~3400lbs Galants, I might like it on my car, which is ~500lbs lighter, but I am not about to spend all that extra money to perform this experiment.

Leon
RR

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
>What ratio 1st gear are you using? Just curious if you have a taller gear

Not sure if this was directed at me or Phil, but I am using stock DSM 1st gear. If you read my other posts, you will see that I really hate GVR4 1st gear.

Oh sorry, yea that was for you. I know Phil's car inside and out.

Of course, I only had a chance to use it on ~3400lbs Galants, I might like it on my car, which is ~500lbs lighter, but I am not about to spend all that extra money to perform this experiment.

Leon
RR

 

[Enraged78]

GRNDSM, congrats on the time, I'm slowly working my way towards the 12's on my 14b equipped 2G.

Phil, Welcome back. Sorry about things not working out at Extreme. Your ex-girlfriend told me about you coming back about two weeks ago, but asked me to keep it quiet. By the way, in case you don't know who this is, it's Matt. We met last year at LVD, I had the black '95 2G. It was stock at the time. Thanks again for the launch lessons.

Matt.

 

[Airpoppoff]

awesome times leon, now you should work on times with a T-25

 

[GRNDSM]

Thanks again everyone!

>now you should work on times with a T-25

Well now, one of the reasons why I keep coming back to the 14b is because I think that it is a VERY good turbo. I am sick and tired of people ditching it in favor of larger turbos, way too early (like after they run 13.5 or so). I always thought that this turbo had more in it that what people gave it credit for.

That was why I even took my car to the track with the 14b turbo in the first place. The only reason I installed it in my car, back in 2000, was to brake in my motor, running it at the track this way was a last minute decision.

Getting back to T-25. I think that it is a big POS and should not be kept in the car any longer than a person can afford it. Running well with this turbo would be set the wrong example and would be only for the sake of setting a record. And I am not interested in doing that…

...Unless, Phil puts it on and runs some 12.5’s with it! Just kidding

Leon
RR

 

[Phil1320]

...hehe.....Leon...I'll keep you posted on any development and thanks for the encouragement!

Yep....Jay, no prob. I'm definitely looking forward to adding some mods and maxing the 14b, Victor Research style!


Matt, good to hear from you, thanks for the words, I appreciate that. Yeah, it's too bad that things didn't work out, not even close, but, now I know. If I never went, I'd always wonder. A true case of dream turned into nightmare. Anyway, I'll see you around.

Jay, see you later....



Phil1320

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Phil1320
Yep....Jay, no prob. I'm definitely looking forward to adding some mods and maxing the 14b, Victor Research style!

Thanks Phil, I figured you were on board but never got a "final" word so I didn't want to ASSume. wE gOtZ yO bAcK mY gIzZLe

If I never went, I'd always wonder. A true case of dream turned into nightmare. Anyway, I'll see you around.

And that's what life is all about dude, don't feel bad. I did the same thing when I went to Charlotte. What a friggin nightmare, ugh... Everything happens for a reason.

Jay, see you later....



Phil1320

Black ceiling paint > Jay & Aaron

You're welcome to stop by and laugh at us! :laugh:

 

[Phil1320]

..that life thing.......I'lll ASSume the best is yet to come. Although, Jay, I know one awesome thing that happend to you in Charlotte, recently learned by the way from the source, she's great.


See you at the shop, and yes, I will laugh!



Phil1320

 

[Zerocygnal]

::holds down the backspace key on future mod list...::

 

[Phil1320]

Phil1320