knocks with stock base timing,runs better when increased

[CREEP]

failing dampener could give a false timing reading?

Dampener? Outside of the crank pulley?

 

[Bastard1g]

Naw, its brand new. I do wanna make sure that my crank pulley is installed correctly. My crank gear is missing the dowel pin so I may have put it on wrong before, but I usually put it on right. Like I said, I will fix those boost leaks and then try to set the timing again.

 

[1fast97gsx]

How about the POT mod? This messes with your barometric pressure signal and creates altered timing maps. A proper way to do the POT mod from what I've seen is to put it on the intake air temperate wire rather than the baro wire and then lean the car out as doing this mod this way will richen it. This way you won't get any crazy timing problems and still no random misfire.

 

[Bastard1g]

I dont know about that, I just know that My car runs like ass with the timing set at between 5-8 degrees. I need to get a timing light again and reset my timing after I fix my boost leaks. I just know that the bpr6es plugs drive alot easier than the 7's. I may have to switch back to the 6's until I can figure something out.

 

[Bastard1g]

Also, I still need to know if there is anything else besides knock that makes the ecu pull timing? I dont like the fact that I was getting 5 degrees at wot.

 

[taylorspl]

I'm having this same problem on my 97 with a 1g cas. Timing @ stock 5 degrees it drives like total crap, but timing almost at full advance it drives like it should. I'm currently looking for some 2g cams so I can put the 2g cas back on.

 

[Bastard1g]

I'm having this same problem on my 97 with a 1g cas. Timing @ stock 5 degrees it drives like total crap, but timing almost at full advance it drives like it should. I'm currently looking for some 2g cams so I can put the 2g cas back on.

Ok, now thats what I am talking about! Now let me know how this works. Also, I want to know everything about your car. Lets see what we can come up with here. Also, do you have an egt gauge? What about dsmlink?

 

[Bastard1g]

Also, is it maybe a bad cas? Is there anyway of testing its accuracy? Also, I was just wondering what would be needed to put in a 2g cas? I would like to try using a 2g cas but the only problem with that would be hacking it up since I rewired mine. Also, I hope the 2g cas at stock advance runs better.

 

[taylorspl]

Ok put a new crank pulley on yesterday(harmonic dampner) car pulls like a champ now, only problem now is heatsoaking the stock I/C. I replaced it because it was moving ALOT, now it moves less but still has a bit of vibration, someone I talked to said this is normal because it absorbs all that and whatnot(anyone care to verify?).

I had my timing @ 15ish degrees and it would still pull timing, now on the new pulley the timing reads the same(I'm guessing it hadn't separated yet just worn out or something) except when I do pulls it doesn't pull timing anymore and it drives way more smoothly. I'm going to put the timing back down to like 8ish tonight and see if the ECU is more kind in giving timing or if theres still some knock getting picked up somewhere. I'll post some more tonight if I get to do my little experiment.

Also how are you setting your timing, are you using a logger or just setting it by the light and thats it? As far as I can tell from reading the only way to set timing is with a datalogger and I don't have one so I've just been checking it with a light and thats it. I have been checking the plugs and theres no signs of detonation or anything like that so I'm not worried I'd just like to know where the ecu thinks the timing is.

But to answer the question before I don't have an EGT, or any kind of logging software. The car is pretty much stock though, cept for the B16g @ conservative 13-14psi and intake/exhaust stuff.

 

[1fast97gsx]

I'm having this same problem on my 97 with a 1g cas. Timing @ stock 5 degrees it drives like total crap, but timing almost at full advance it drives like it should. I'm currently looking for some 2g cams so I can put the 2g cas back on.

You can just drill and tap your 1g cam to work with a 97 sensor ... very easy to do.

 

[Bastard1g]

I have a brand new crank pulley, maybe I just put it on wrong. I can only hope.

 

[taylorspl]

You can just drill and tap your 1g cam to work with a 97 sensor ... very easy to do.

This seems to be the common suggestion and frankly I just don't feel comfortable drilling a hole in my cam, its easier for me to buy some used cams, but thank you for the suggestion. It also appears for the time being the car is happy, so I'm not gonna mess with swapping cams til I get some logs.

 

[Bastard1g]

Does anyone on here know if a cam angle sensor can be funtional but send an inaccurate signal causing us to advance to get normal timing?

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, I hooked up a scan tool to my car today.

14 degrees at idle
8-12 at wot
20% load on motor at idle

I am thinking that my coolant temp sensor may not be perfectly accurate. I got it out of a wrecked 95 tsi, I may try to replace it soon. Also, the scan tool stops working on my car after about 10 minutes, it says the the connections isnt any good. but a couple days later, it will work for about 10 minutes and then stop working again.

 

[Bastard1g]

I emailed key diver today hoping that he can help me out somehow or maybe burn me a better chip with more timing. I will let you guys know how this all turns out.

 

[Newlogics]

Well, I hooked up a scan tool to my car today.

14 degrees at idle
8-12 at wot
20% load on motor at idle

I am thinking that my coolant temp sensor may not be perfectly accurate. I got it out of a wrecked 95 tsi, I may try to replace it soon. Also, the scan tool stops working on my car after about 10 minutes, it says the the connections isnt any good. but a couple days later, it will work for about 10 minutes and then stop working again.

Extremely retarded timing will simulate a load on your engine at idle. The two main reasons ECU pulls the timing for are Knock and Richness. As you said, you AFR is fine. That leaves knock. What you have to ask yourself, is wether car runs like crap and knocks, or car knocks, and runs like crap because of that.

Knock ar low throttle/rpm range is very often caused to faulty T-belt alignment. We're talking 1/2 to 1 tooth off. It may be tricky to spot, but I would suggest you do that. A very common mistake people make on T-belt job, is having those CAM timing marks aligned, but above or below the head level, which causes you to be 1/2 a tooth off at the crank. It's not a lot, but it will make your car run like crap and induce crazy 'phantom' knock, that people so often attribute to lifter tick and other unrelated stuff.
Don't be lazy and redo your T-belt.

Also, 91-94 CAS seems to work a bit better for a 6-bolt swap. I've had some minor issues with 90 CAS before, but nothing major like you're describing.

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, you have a good point there. I am going to recheck my timing belt once again this friday. I have nothing to lose by jacking the car up and checking it. I doubt its off because I checked it a bunch of times but I am a lil goofy sometimes so it may be off.

 

[taylorspl]

Moving this weekend, but retarded the timing and ran even worse. Next weekend I'm pulling the tranny to find my mystery noise and then I'll check the tbelt while the tranny is out. Now I just need to find a logger to check my timing while driving and whatnot. Thanks for all of the ideas I'll post back what I find.

 

[Bastard1g]

Yea, I am going to check my timing belt tonight maybe. I kinda need to. I dont understand why the hell my ecu wants to advance my spark to 14 degrees at idle? that is weird.

 

[taylorspl]

This may or may not be a stupid question but I have to ask to make sure I am doing this right. I bought my car with the 1g cas on it, on a 97 there is no ground wire to ground out for setting timing right? I've got it at 13-14 degrees at idle and it runs closer to right like this but I'd like it down at 5 where the ECU has more control over the timing and whatnot.

 

[Bastard1g]

Yea, only on 95's do they come with a ground plug for setting base timing. we can only ground out with a dsmlink. The pocket logger on my car said 14 at idle, so I have it set around there, which seems dangerous but if I dont, My "knock Gauge" starts showing knock and I can really feel timing being pulled. I just hope I can get it running better before I melt a piston.

 

[taylorspl]

Ok then it seems we're in the same boat. Gonna check my t-belt when I get home later, if I don't find anything I may pull the pully so I can check the balance shaft to make sure its aligned also. Lets keep this updated I know more than me and you have to be dealing with this.

 

[Bastard1g]

Yea I know. The worst part is that all my knowledge and hard work I have put in this car has been over shadowed by some stupid little problem that would have been fixed a long time ago if I wasnt such an air head. I just wish i knew why my car wont idle right at 750 rpm's, it slightly backfires at idle, advances spark to 14 degrees at idle and wont run on stock timing and runs good on advanced timing. weird.

 

[taylorspl]

OK pulled the top timing belt cover and jacked up the car, pulled the wheel and rotated the crank to TDC. By my eyes the inside marks are parallel but they do look lower than the head, although I cannot get straight on and the outside exhaust cam gear mark does look level with the head. The fact that i have a mean ass head cold right now probably isn't helping my vision either. Heres a link to a crappy pic of the marks let me know if they look low to you also. Either way I'm probably going to pull the belt and reinstall it next weekend since I have to move this weekend. I'll keep updating this though.

 

[Bastard1g]

I can barely see anything in that pic . Also, you will need to pull your lower timing belt cover to check your crank gear lining up with the block.