knocks with stock base timing,runs better when increased

[madaba]

i don't know much about 6 bolt swaps but i try and throw out some ideas.

when i had my cas all the way to one side, my timing belt was off a tooth, but mine would advance to normal where yours is not.

have you double checked that you put the balancer on correctly and you are using the correct markings? i wouldn't think that a 6 bolt timing cover would fit but is it possible to have the wrong timing cover?

 

[taylorspl]

I can barely see anything in that pic . Also, you will need to pull your lower timing belt cover to check your crank gear lining up with the block.

That'll have to wait then I just aligned the pulley to TDC on the cover just to see where the cam markings were. It looks like the valve cover is leaking a bit of oil too so I'll have a fun weekend pulling the tranny to find the mystery noise, pulling the belts and checking those and fixing the leak around the valve cover, oh and the stupid hose from the tb to the tstat housing sprung a leak now. This is how I can tell when summer comes every year stuff breaks.

 

[Bastard1g]

I feel ya, I am going to tear my car apart friday and mess aorund with it to see whats up with everything. Hopefully I messed something up and it is an easy fix. I deserve something like an easy fix at this point. I have messed with my car way too much as it is and I still have lots of work to do.

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, just to do some experimenting, I advanced the timing even more to see what will happen and I finally started seeing knock on the boost gauge, I backed it off a bit and then played with the potentiometer. I adjusted that all the way and then made a pull. I started knocking and noticed instead of being in the 11's i was in the 12's a/f ratio wise. I corrected witht he afc a lil bit and now its not knocking and still pulls decent. So I am still going to pull my car aprt tommorow and see wahst up though. I have a backfire at idle. New plugs and wires and the a/f ratio bounces around 14:7:1 at idle and cruising. i am going to go to my girls tonight and make some more pulls on my way there. I will repost tommorow and let you know whats up.

 

[Bastard1g]

I have still been fighting this problem. I havent checked my timing just yet. I will probably check it in a few days. Is there a way to check it with the crank pulley on? Isnt it supposed to be lined up with the tdc mark?

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, guys. I am fresh out of ideas. My cam timing is dead on. There should be no reason for my timing to be off like that. My car is screwed.

 

[Dred]

I have the same problem, although I don't really see it as a problem. If your car pulls hard w/ advanced timing it's not as bad as it seems. I can pull my timing all the way up and it runs like a beast. Same issues tho when I have it on stock 5*TDC tho.

Also, the logger doesn't show your "exact" timing, it shows timing in relation to 5*TDC. So if your timing is at 15*, the timing values shown by the logger would be offset. I'm using MMcD (got everything w/ palm for 50bux off ebay) so I can actually tell the logger where my base timing is so it will recalculate accordingly.

My car does need a tune-up whoever, but since I can remember, I always had timing pretty advanced and pulled hard w/ no knock.
IF you want to check out my logs you can do it here (before and after I installed an MBC)

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, today after work, I might snatch out my keydiver chip and throw in my stock chip. That might help with the problems, I dont know. The reason why i think its the chip is because I checked out a few people on this board that had the same problem, I think the chip really screws your timing up.

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, no go on the stock chip setup, I did everything needed and put it back in. It ran worse than with the chip. so I had to put the keydiver back in and retune it. I may get dsmlink soon, when I do get it, I will repost with logs and info. Later.

 

[Dred]

Hmm I just found something.
I have the same issues, and a retarted o2 sensor (getting a new one tmr)

My o2 sensor reads very lean (0.0v at WOT) so my fuel trims are all in the 140s meaning in actuality my engine is running extremely rich, too rich to run on 5*BTDC. I get crap when I start the car when it didn't run for a while because the fuel maps are too rich. The damn bucking at MID-T is horrible. So, I think the problem is the o2 sensor since (correct me if I'm wrong) the fuel maps are set by gathering the data from the o2. So, in turn, the solution would be to get a new o2.

Getting one tmr, will keep you posted.

P.S. Get your friend's logger and do some WOT runs, I bet your o2 is pegged at 0.1 or less and trims are at 140 (all of them).

 

[Bastard1g]

Well, I have a wideband and i have the a/f ratio where it needs to be. Last night I went out and played with it for a little bit and regapped my plugs from .030 to .026 and I think it actually helped. I think I may have been blowing the spark out at .030 because it seems better. Butt dyno says faster but who knows????????? I hear I will be eating up some gas with a smaller gap though

 

[taylorspl]

Off?

Before you say the dowels are facing down, yes I know this. My friend sent me the wrong picture and deleted the rest, but they were exactly the same amount off when the dowels were facing up. So this weekend I'm redoing the timing belt and balance shaft belt. Hopefully this fixes my nasty problem and cures the stupid wobbly crank pulley. I hope you can get your car running right.

 

[Bastard1g]

Is there anyway that you can take a picture of your cam gears and crank pulley in the correct position? Its doesnt really loook off to me. Maybe turning it one way or the other can line them up. I know for a fact mine are dead on. I have no idea why my engine is trying to advance my spark at idle to 14 degrees. Just weird.

 

[taylorspl]

That is weird that your ecu is trying to do that. I've been thinking about this more and more and it seems like we have the same symptoms but different actual problems. If I ture the crank anymore the marks go away from each other because both of the gears spin clockwise. The ruler was to show they were in fact off, because without it there they are both parallel and you cannot get straight on to see it line up with the head because the body is in the way. I asked on my local dsm list and they confirmed that all of the dashes should be parallel. So like it was stated in a previous post in this thread I am going to redo the timing belt because even a half tooth off at the crank will make it run like crap. Also what you can't see is to get the gears to be parallel the crank pulley tdc mark is just a tad past the tdc mark on the timing belt cover. Either way I'll let you know if this fixes my problem and I'll get pictures of everything on saturday before I take it apart, during, and after so you can compare.

 

[Bastard1g]

If you havent done them much, be very careful and dont rush it. I had to swap my cams out on the side of the road, sucked. Keep in mind that you have to advance you exhaust cam one tooth when setting it up because when you tension the belt, it will roll back one tooth counter clockwise. So when putting your timing belt on, it will apear that it is off until you actually tension it. Make sense?

 

[taylorspl]

I've done plenty just not on a dsm yet. I have experienced help so I'm not worried, I'm just a girl about things since I hate getting dirty.

 

[blackGSX2g]

Also what you can't see is to get the gears to be parallel the crank pulley tdc mark is just a tad past the tdc mark on the timing belt cover. Either way I'll let you know if this fixes my problem and I'll get pictures of everything on saturday before I take it apart, during, and after so you can compare.

Mine is like that as well, but I checked the cam timing and it is still good. Mine gets alot of knock in part of 3rd 4th and 5th gear under throttle.

 

[taylorspl]

GREAT NEWS I FOUND THE PROBLEM!!!

I had an awesome night pulled everything apart saw that the front balance shaft was off a tooth and go w00t I found something wrong that must be it. Only to put it back together and start it with just the belt on and what do I see, the crank moves side to side when looking from the top and around in a circle when looking at the side. So its looking like I'm buying a 6 bolt. Thanks for all of your help but I'll just assume this is whats causing everything on this car and swap it before I worry about anything else. Thank you again, I'm out.

 

[Dred]

I don't know for sure, but crankwalk doesn't cause those probs. Btw I changed my o2 sensor today, car is running great on 5BTDC. My trims are good now, not running rich, and when I start the car, it doesn't start stalling, no gas pedal play needed in order to keep the car running til it's warm!

O2 sensor solved my problem, maybe it's yours as well.

 

[taylorspl]

So a moving crankshaft won't cause a loss in performance? It moving like that makes a bit of noise, which explains why the car has no timing unless I advance the hell out of it. If after the rebuild its still doing this I'll start replacing other stuff like knock sensor and all that but a moving crank is no good one way or another. I also don't know that I'd call this crankwalk just because it moves around not just side to side, the label is much easier to use though.