Kit or Custom?

[djXternal]

Alright I've gone through about 10 pages of threads on here and still havent found what I was looking for... Now the truboing of my car still wont happen for a little while, but I'm gonna start planning...

My question is is it better to go with a kit or make my own kit? I want basically one of the best turbo's I can get... I've read good things about the EVO3-16g, but I have really just started reading through and learning about turboing my car...

What do you guys say would be the best to go with kit or custom?

And if I go custom, is there a place that I can fins a general list of the parts I'll need, I kno I used to have it but cannot find it anymore...

Thanks for the help guys

 

[selmerguy]

This has been discussed alot on here but I will through you a bone. I like the idea of a custom kit. With both the star and hahn kit you will want to replace parts. As for parts here is basic list of what you will need.

manifold, turbo, intercooler(optional but you should have one), ic pipes, oil input and return, fuel system.

The fuel system is up to you and how much boost you want to run. The basic fuel system people use is a walbro 255 and fmu. This is good to around 8 psi intercooled. I guess the next step up is the 255, sfmu, and bigger injectors. This has been good up to 20 psi(not all day) and depends on the injector size and your ability to tune. Most people with this setup run a safc to fine tune things abit. The best setup if you want to go big is portfueller or some other form of ems such as megasquirt or the high dollar stuff like aem ect...

Good luck and keep seaching.

 

[djXternal]

alright thanks, might just be because im so tired and im looking over things...

And I was looking at the AEM type fuel managemnt systems, I want to be able to run 20psi+ boost if possible

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Custom is the way to go. The most common complaint from people who buy the kits is that they wind up replacing most of the parts anyway.

I'm assuming you've read GSGoinFast's guide already. That pretty much has all of the basic elements of a custom turbo kit. Keep in mind, though, that he was going for thriftiness. There is plenty of room for upgrade in his setup (no offense, it's a great setup).

If you follow his walkthrough, I would recommend upgrading the IC (get a FMIC), buy a manifold (The Street Source has the best I've seen so far) and use aluminum IC piping.

The fuel system is another issue. Like selmerguy said, the FMU and Walbro is a common setup, but it should really only be temporary. I like the Portfueler, but it seems unnecessarily expensive. Look into the 034 EIC (www.034.com) and possibly making your own 8 injector set up. They can be run for maximum fuel efficiency for daily driving, while automatically reverting to a high flow configuration for speed.

Then of course, again, like selmerguy said, there's Megasquirt. It's probably the best way to control your engine, but it requires a certain amount of know-how as it gives you complete control. It would probably be better as an upgrade from the 8 injector set up later on down the road when you really need it.

 

[selmerguy]

Build your motor strong and spend a butt load of cash anything can happen.

 

[djXternal]

no i havent read his guide, I did not see it for some reason, I'll search for it now...

I'll also do some searching on an 8 injector set-up and megasquirt

 

[VelocitàPaola]

GSGoinFast's Guide:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181134

Corbin's 8 Injector Setup Using the 034 EIC:
http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/8inj.html

MegaSquirt (MS):
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
http://www.megasquirt.info

I have them bookmarked.

 

[djXternal]

thanks, Ive browsed through his guide real quick, looks like exactly what ive been searching for, just forgot to search the articles section, I'll check the others out now

 

[djXternal]

I like that 8 injector setup... If i went that route with the setup like the website showed (1:1 FPR and EIC) would I still want to use something like Megasquirt or would there no longer be any need for it while running a stronger fuel pump

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I like that 8 injector setup... If i went that route with the setup like the website showed (1:1 FPR and EIC) would I still want to use something like Megasquirt or would there no longer be any need for it while running a stronger fuel pump

Well, with the 8 injector setup the EIC controls the extra injectors while the stock ECU controls the basic injectors. If you got MS, it would control all eight.

It's an either/or situation. You can get the EIC or MS. MS is more comprehensive, and more powerful, but the EIC alone is still a great option.

 

[djXternal]

The EIC would more than likely be easier to run correct? Also could I setup and install the 8 injectors with the EIC before I actually turbo? If i'm understanding correctly then the last 4 injectors wouldn't engage until there was more than 1psi of boost, or am i misunderstanding how this is working

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The EIC would more than likely be easier to run correct? Also could I setup and install the 8 injectors with the EIC before I actually turbo? If i'm understanding correctly then the last 4 injectors wouldn't engage until there was more than 1psi of boost, or am i misunderstanding how this is working

That's correct; that's the beauty of the whole system. You only have the extra fuel when you need it - saving your gas mileage from going down the tubes.

I think it would be easier to use, but there is still some tuning required for which you'll at least need a datalogger.

 

[djXternal]

any opinions on good dataloggers? I have a pc that is always running in the car as well so if there is anything good that has some visuals... maybe guages or anything like that it would be great

 

[VelocitàPaola]

any opinions on good dataloggers? I have a pc that is always running in the car as well so if there is anything good that has some visuals... maybe guages or anything like that it would be great

I know of a good logger... mine! PM me about it.

Sorry the picture quality kind of sucks.

 

[selmerguy]

any opinions on good dataloggers? I have a pc that is always running in the car as well so if there is anything good that has some visuals... maybe guages or anything like that it would be great

Megasquirt does all this. If you have a carputer running just save some money and dive into ems. Aem, megasquirt, emanage(piggyback), ect.... Haltec has a good one aswell. I am installing msns in the next few months. I have read alot and with all the help and experence on 2gnt.com I have no real worries. I hate to see people turbo there car with a goal in mind and then waste money on stuff and replace it later. I am still mad that i bought a safc.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Aem, megasquirt, emanage(piggyback), ect....

WTF Those aren't piggyback, they're complete ECUs.

 

[djXternal]

Is there any huge advantage to using a standalone fuel management like the aem or megasquirter over the 8 injectors with 1:1 FPR and EIC?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Is there any huge advantage to using a standalone fuel management

Complete and total control over your car.

They really are great systems, but there's at least one thing you need to know. GReddy and AEM don't offer support for our platforms, and Megasquirt is "experimental," so you'll either need to figure out all of the variables and tuning yourself, or find someone who is very good with these types of systems.

 

[selmerguy]

Complete and total control over your car.

They really are great systems, but there's at least one thing you need to know. GReddy and AEM don't offer support for our platforms, and Megasquirt is "experimental," so you'll either need to figure out all of the variables and tuning yourself, or find someone who is very good with these types of systems.

Almost right. Greddy and Aem dont offer plug and play systems for our cars. They both offer a universal ems. Which puts you almost in the same boat as megasquirt.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Almost right. Greddy and Aem dont offer plug and play systems for our cars. They both offer a universal ems.

That's what I meant, they're all universal, but the companies (or in Megasquirt's case, the developers) don't offer vehicle specific support for our cars.

 

[djXternal]

alright well i think I'll go with the EIC and 8 injectors, possibly upgrade sometime very far down the line, this just seems like a much simpler setup and usage

 

[selmerguy]

WTF Those aren't piggyback, they're complete ECUs.

Missed this post. The emanage is a piggyback the rest are not. Sorry my typing was not clear.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Missed this post. The emanage is a piggyback the rest are not. Sorry my typing was not clear.

Oh wow, I just looked into the emanage. I've seen it advertised before, but I always figured it was GReddy's answer to the AEM EMS. I never realized it was a piggyback fuel adjuster. It looks nice, and it's much cheaper than some of the alternatives, but it has the limitation of only adding two supplemental injectors. Furthermore, it controls the stock injectors in the same way the S-AFC does. I think the EIC is the right choice if this is the way you're going.

 

[selmerguy]

Oh wow, I just looked into the emanage. I've seen it advertised before, but I always figured it was GReddy's answer to the AEM EMS. I never realized it was a piggyback fuel adjuster. It looks nice, and it's much cheaper than some of the alternatives, but it has the limitation of only adding two supplemental injectors. Furthermore, it controls the stock injectors in the same way the S-AFC does. I think the EIC is the right choice if this is the way you're going.

Now your on the right track. Bigrand is tryiny to run the emanage. Im not sure where he is at but when he gets it running it will be a beast I think. Beautiful car. Before you decide look into msns atleast. Best choice I think.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

That's what I meant, they're all universal, but the companies (or in Megasquirt's case, the developers) don't offer vehicle specific support for our cars.

You might want to do some research before you label or make claims about the Megasquirt.

First off, megasquirt was designed to run in piggyback form for fuel only, today it can be used as a standalone if you so choose. Second, there is more support on our cars than you know obviously. I personally run one and many others on 2gnt run them. We have worked with the MS since the neon crank was decoded. MSEFI.com has a lot of support for our cars.

<egasquirt has its own logging and tuning software. The software is constantly being upgrade and changed to further the capabilities and is FREE. Megasquirt can be simple or you can choose to make it complex, you could say that MS grows with you!

Selmerguy will have his this wednesday.

Terry