Resolved kiggly racing HLA Pressure Regulator

[cbr600teardrop]

has any one used this if so pros cons work on dd or just strip any input would be great thanks

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[eclispestar]

I also want to know more about this part

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

You don't need one.

That is not what he is asking. I'd like to know more about it too.

 

[snowborder714]

Here's some info about it from another forum.

I'm sure cost is the reason they 86'd the regulator in OEM trim. That regulator also only dumped to regulate pressure, which isn't in the best interest of keeping your oil pan full. I had big problems with oil starvation start to pop up as soon as the car stayed much above the factory revlimiter for a full pass. Results will vary all over the place though. The more blowby the engine has, the worse it will stack up oil in the head. The blowby has to come up and out of the head drainbacks, and that fights the oil trying to go down them.

My regulator only alters oil pressure to the lifters, which also feed the rocker squirters. Cam oil is still at full pressure, so your turbo feed doesn't change. It would be possible to also feed a ball-bearing turbo off the regulated 15psi if you wanted to, just put a fitting in the lifter gallery off the end of the head. There should be no situation in which the lifters need more than 15psi and all the lifter tech data I've been able to find indicates that lifters perform better at lower pressures than full engine oil pressure.

What the HLA regulator helps oil-pressure wise is after extended high rpm usage when the oil is all stacked up in the head because it can't get back to the pan quick enough. This is more at the top end of the track than at launch.

These engines have all sorts of oil system deficiencies when you start pushing them hard.

At what RPM ranges does this become needed? You mention most of a run being over the factory redline... well a 67 does not spool untill the mid 6's and ALOT of have those. I would guess most of my pass is above 6.5Krpm

I really don't know. I wish I had a better answer for you. I can only speak from my own experiences that say a whole pass at 8k+ means trouble. The good thing with this part is I don't know any downside to it besides the cost of buying it. The other thing I saw was a lot less crap in the catch can after each pass. I guess if you're seeing a lot of oil in the catchcan every pass it indicates a lot of oil is stuck up in the head.

Overfilling the oil may or may not help. As you overfill the oil more of it sloshes up against the crank and gets frothed up. This means worse oil quality all-around, which you probably won't see on a pressure gauge either. I think the crank weights make about a 6" diameter circle. At 9000rpm the surface speed of a 6" circle is over 160mph. That is a hell of a beater/froth-maker.

And if you have any more questions, send him a PM on here (kiggly) or e-mail/call him. I'm sure he'd be more than willing to post up in here and answer any questions.

 

[DSM_PWR]

I use it.. no problems Daily driving it..

Helps keep oil down in the pan for the bearings...

Great piece for the price

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

There isn't a whole lot of information out there. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/334072-kiggly-hla-pressure-regulator.html As with any part like this, your best information is going to come directly from Kiggly yourself. He can answer any questions you might have.

 

[JonathanNL]

As with any part like this, your best information is going to come directly from Kiggly yourself. He can answer any questions you might have.

Which is exactly what I did. So for anybody looking for a bit more information on the Kiggly HLA regulator, here are my questions and the answers that Kevin provided in great detail!

Hi Jonathan, I'll do my best below to reply to your questions.

If I understand correctly one of the biggest benefits of the Kiggly HLA regulator is the above mentioned effect of keeping more oil in the pan, by dumping more oil from the channel to the HLA than the OEM regulator.
All of the above mentioned scenario is in a short (but very high RPM) drag. But how much of this effect (preventing of oil starvation) would be seen on a track-car which sees RPM-ranges from 4500 to 8000 for prolonged periods of time ?

The oil stacking up in the head is mostly due to blowby. This engine flows a lot of oil into the cylinder head and all of that oil has to make it back to the oil pan through the small drainbacks at the front and back of the cylinder head. The problem is all blowby gases flow up through these same drainbacks and out the valve cover vents. As blowby goes up, the airflow through these drainbacks gets so high that oil cannot make it back down to the pan because it is being pushed back up into the cylinder head by the blowby airflow. There are two situations where this is a problem, any engine that doesn't seal up well or even high power engines that seal up reasonably well. At high enough power levels, even with a well built engine, there will be reasonably high blowby.

High rpm makes this problem worse as the oil system in these engines doesn't seem to do a good job of keeping the oil in the lower end well in control inside the oil pan. I don't have any solid proof of this, but I believe that at high rpm a lot of oil is suspended in windage within the engine block, which also makes the amount in the pan available to the pickup worse.

To answer your question, at any rpm range the HLA regulator will help keep oil in the pan. The question is whether you have a problem with the pan being run low or not. I've had some EVO road-race customers report back that some corners (mostly long sweepers) caused major oil pressure loss before the HLA regulator and they had no oil pressure loss at all after the regulator.

My regulator only alters oil pressure to the lifters, which also feed the rocker squirters. Cam oil is still at full pressure, so your turbo feed doesn't change.

Does the cam oil have a different oilreturn then the lifters? Or is the mere fact that lifter feed is reduced already enough to prevent oil build up in the head?

The oil from the head all returns through the same drainback holes. Most of the oil flow into the head is through the lifters. The cam journals really don't flow much oil in comparison.

I have a 4G63T out of a RVR (which would count as a 'jdm'-engine). In the above quote you mention that the JDM dump-to-head regulator is about 15 psi set point as well.
Would this mean that a JDM regulator functions about the same as the Kiggly HLA regulator, or am I missing a key differance here? !

The key difference is the JDM regulator reduces flow to the lifters by simply pouring that extra oil directly into the cylinder head. It still has to go through the same drainback holes to get back to the pan. My regulator actually reduces the oil flow into the head, so there is less that has to drain back to the pan.

I think there is a very good chance our product will be beneficial in your application. The other gain that wasn't mentioned is the reduced oil into the catch can. For your type of application, I think a catch can with a return to the oil pan would be a really good idea. Long track sessions could fill up a catch can that doesn't pull back to the oil pan. Buschur makes a product like this and there is also some tech info on the internet for how it is set up. The OEM honda oil systems have this type of setup as well.

Thanks,
Kevin

And follow-up questions from me, followed by the answer from Kevin - Kiggly Racing:

Hi Kevin,

Thank you very much for answering my questions in detail!
I will definitely purchase one of your HLA regulators (at MAPerformance, since they, just like ExtremePSI, are very reliable international sellers), since keeping (only unnecessary!!!) oil out of the head and in the pan where it is needed already seems like a good enough reason to install one of these!
Adding that these engine are known to have a lot of blow-by (for which, in my opinion, the stock PCV-system already was not sufficient even on stock boost) and preventing the pointless loss of oil because of this is a nice added feature!

I just have these last questions that popped into my head when reading this part:

The key difference is the JDM regulator reduces flow to the lifters by simply pouring that extra oil directly into the cylinder head. It still has to go through the same drainback holes to get back to the pan. My regulator actually reduces the oil flow into the head, so there is less that has to drain back to the pan.

How exactly does the Kiggly HLA regulator reduce the oil flow into the head?
And is any increase in oil pressure to be expected because of this (in my case in the older 4G63T engines)? (And, If so, should porting of the oil relieve valve be done to solve this, just like in the case of removal of the balance shafts..?)

I hope you can clarify these lasts questions I had (probably only because of lack of full understanding of the oil system in the 4G63 engines on my part... )!
I will of course post your previous and any upcoming answers in the threads regarding the Kiggly HLA regulator for the benefit of all the others interested in your product, but who are looking for a bit of extra information to convince them to buy it!

Kind regards,

Jonathan

The basic method of regulation on my setup is a pressure-balance on the downstream side of the regulator. When pressure goes beyond the set point the shuttle valve actually cuts off the oil supply. It actually works somewhat similar to an air-line pressure regulator if you've ever had one of those apart. This does allow the oil system to reach full pressure at a little lower rpm and also can need a slightly more aggressive porting on the oil filter housing to keep it down to the same oil pressure. Personally, I'm not too worried about higher oil pressure to the bottom end and cams. I know a lot of people seem very worried about oil pressure being 'too high', but I don't really see the issue.

Thanks,
Kevin

There you have it, some extra information about this product for the ones looking for it!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Thanks for sharing that!

 

[LiquidX]

Thanks for the info but you dont need to post the same info on 3 different threads.

 

[SHEARER_TSI]

Where does this part get installed? I can picture what it's replacing???

 

[snowborder714]

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[SHEARER_TSI]

I always wondered what the hell that was.

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[keltalon]

I always wondered what the hell that was.

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Man you took the words right out of my mouth. Everytime I was shopping at any of the dsm vendors stores I would always see this thing and after seeing it a 1000 times I click on it to find out was it was and why anyone may need it and at the same time returned to tuners to read a little feedback as I do with any part before purchasing. I am glad I did because I will definitely purchase one for this new buld of mine Oh by the way ,this thread is a model example of how to effectively answer a question Great job guys