Keydiver stage3 chip NOT WORKING PROPERLY!

[kwaliph]

First of all,
I am not even close to ruling out the possibility of it being me not installing the new clutch wire successfully but I followed the install instructions from TMO quite closely.

Here is the problem,
After finishing the ~30 min. install of the clutch wire kit, I go to test. I activate the launch stutter box flawlessly . Now I am gonna test the NLTS stutter box, here is where something is not right. I floor it in 2nd and it stutters at 5500 with the clutch not being touched . Just last night I wass hitting 7k and loving it but now it won't go past 5500 wether the clutch is in or not .

What would cause this? Is my install job screwed up somewhere?
Please, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[andymoraitis]

Sounds to me like you made an error in the wiring. The install directions are linked to from here with an FAQ in case you want to review them again:

http://www.dsmchips.com/stage2.htm

Let me know what you find,

Andy

 

[kwaliph]

Thanks very much. Atleast you gave me a direction.

Well I think I found the source of the problem. I may have incorrectly installed the "to switch" and "from switch" wires. The intructions from keydiver actually are backwards from what I found on the TMO site . Well IM gonna go switch the wires right now at my workshop so I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks.

 

[kwaliph]

Well now Im mad . I just switched the wires and nothing new . It still won't let me rev past 5500. Everything else works just like before I switched the wires. I'm guessing my clutch switch is not working. Any way of testing this theory? Any other ideas? This is really becoming a headache.

 

[kwaliph]

I just checked my switch and I found some rather strange results. I have full continuity when the clutch is NOT pressed to the floor and I have no continuity when the clutch IS pressed to the floor. My service manual says just the opposite WTF! It says and I quote

INTERLOCK SWITCH INSPECTION

(1) Disconnect the connector
(2) Check to be sure that there is continuity between connector terminals 1 and 2 when the clutch pedal is depressed fully.

So is my switch faulty? Or did I get screwed on my chip?

 

[Quasimondo]

There are two clutch switches down there. Sounds like you have your stutterbox wired into the wrong one. I had the same problem. One switch is the starter safety switch, the other is the cruise control deactivation switch. I can't remember which one is which, bit if you're hitting the stutterbox when you're off the clutch, you're wired into the wrong switch.

 

[titogs95]

Two things:
1. make sure it is in the right sensor. Sound to me you have it in the wrong one.
2. Also did you use a capacitor in the wiring? (it is important)

Good luck!

 

[kwaliph]

Well, I patched that switch and hooked it up properly to the other switch. It's even worse.

Now when the car is stopped, it revs to 4k whether or not the clutch is pressed in. When the car is rolling, it still only revs to 5500.

I got to thinking and I realized that I don't have to push the clutch to start the vehicle but this shouldn't matter if the stutter box ran off the cruise control switch, right?

BUT, if I'm not mistaken...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

That sure looks like the first switch I tapped into and nothing like the second switch I'm tapped into right now. I'm positive the wiring is correct (according to keydiver, opposite of tmo) and it still doesn't work like its supposed to.

I have no idea wtf is wrong here. I'm beginning to think the chip is programmed wrong. Only because I have tried everything else. I will try switching the wires tomorrow but that shouldn't matter if the clutch has no effect on the stutter box in the first place.

 

[kwaliph]

Two things:
1. make sure it is in the right sensor. Sound to me you have it in the wrong one.
2. Also did you use a capacitor in the wiring? (it is important)

1. I'm on my second switch so that can't be the case.
2. I have no idea what you are talking about. If there is supposed to be a capacitor in the wiring, why didn't KD include it in the kit? Why would they NOT have mentioned anything about it?

 

[steve]

2. I have no idea what you are talking about. If there is supposed to be a capacitor in the wiring, why didn't KD include it in the kit? Why would they NOT have mentioned anything about it?

There is no capacitor for this. The wire just adds a diode to block the stock CSS circuit from grounding the ECU input. It needed because the ignition switch grounds the green wire when the ignition switch isn't in the start position. The diode blocks current from flowing from the ECU to the ignition switch so only the CSS is grounding the ECU.

Steve

 

[kwaliph]

Steve:

The instructions that came with the chip and clutch wire show this diode you speak of. I know very well diodes and capacitors are not the same thing and that is what confused me.

So should I send back the chip? Is there something else I should try first? Im kinda stuck here with no leads on what to do next .

 

[92awddsm]

Well, I patched that switch and hooked it up properly to the other switch. It's even worse.

Now when the car is stopped, it revs to 4k whether or not the clutch is pressed in. When the car is rolling, it still only revs to 5500.

I got to thinking and I realized that I don't have to push the clutch to start the vehicle but this shouldn't matter if the stutter box ran off the cruise control switch, right?

BUT, if I'm not mistaken...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

That sure looks like the first switch I tapped into and nothing like the second switch I'm tapped into right now. I'm positive the wiring is correct (according to keydiver, opposite of tmo) and it still doesn't work like its supposed to.

I have no idea wtf is wrong here. I'm beginning to think the chip is programmed wrong. Only because I have tried everything else. I will try switching the wires tomorrow but that shouldn't matter if the clutch has no effect on the stutter box in the first place.

This is the proper switch to hook the clutch wire to. To simplify it, you connect the clutch wire to the switch that is closest to the firewall, not the one closest to the dash. I would recheck wiring to the switch because it is easy to make a mistake. Remember, the clutch wire has 3 different ends and can be hooked up improperly several ways, not just 2. I have the same options on my kd chip and never had a problem. The instructions supplied by Jeff were correct and the clutch wire he supplied also worked perfectly.

The only problem I ever had with mine was not chip or wire related. It was a ground issue. I found that the stock throttle body ground strap was missing and that was the main problem. Some of the features are operated by the closed throttle position switch and without a proper ground on the tb, it doesnt work properly.

 

[steve]

If the chip worked before you started the mod for the CSS use then it's not the chip. (ie no stutterbox and normal redline)

From what I remember off the top of my head the CSS grounds the green wire when the clutch isn't pushed in. In the normal use it grouns the coil of the starter relay to disconnect the ignition switch from the starter solenoid when the clutch is out.

So continuioty between the terminals when the clutch is out and no continuity when the clutch is pushed in.

If you just connect a wire from the ECU to the switch end of the green wire and leave the other end of the green wire disconnected you should get 0 volt on the ECU wire with the clutch out and 12v when you push the clutch in.

The diode should be installed with the cathode connected to the switch side of the green wire and the anode to the other end of the green wire. The wire from the ECU connects to the cathode/switch junction.

Steve

 

[kwaliph]

This is the proper switch to hook the clutch wire to. To simplify it, you connect the clutch wire to the switch that is closest to the firewall, not the one closest to the dash. I would recheck wiring to the switch because it is easy to make a mistake. Remember, the clutch wire has 3 different ends and can be hooked up improperly several ways, not just 2. I have the same options on my kd chip and never had a problem. The instructions supplied by Jeff were correct and the clutch wire he supplied also worked perfectly.

So your telling me that the long gray wire is not the wire that goes to pin 104 on the ecu???
Why would they make that wire 15 times longer than say, the other 2 wires (which are the same length) if it wasn't supposed go to the ecu?

I've tried BOTH ways to splice the clutch wire to the switch. and neither worked correctly. In fact, it made no difference which way I wired it to the switch closest to the fire-wall.

Soooooooo, I'm still waiting for my night in shining armor

 

[92awddsm]

So your telling me that the long gray wire is not the wire that goes to pin 104 on the ecu???
Why would they make that wire 15 times longer than say, the other 2 wires (which are the same length) if it wasn't supposed go to the ecu?

:

Yes, if it came with one long lead, it should go to the ecu. I have seen one before from someone else that had all 3 wires the same length so improper installation was easy.

You did tap into the green wire from the clutch switch, right? I am by no means questioning you ability, just trying to help you troubleshoot. And you did cut the wire at the ecu and not just tap into it?

 

[kwaliph]

If you just connect a wire from the ECU to the switch end of the green wire and leave the other end of the green wire disconnected you should get 0 volt on the ECU wire with the clutch out and 12v when you push the clutch in.

The diode should be installed with the cathode connected to the switch side of the green wire and the anode to the other end of the green wire. The wire from the ECU connects to the cathode/switch junction.
Steve

I apologize for my stupidness, but is this instructions or just a clarification?
I think your telling me to rewire it like the second attempt (KD instructions). It didn't operate correctly when it was wired like stated above. So what should I do?

 

[steve]

Clarification and another way to skin the cat.

Hopefully if you understand what should be going on you'll identify what isn't.

Steve

 

[kwaliph]

You did tap into the green wire from the clutch switch, right? I am by no means questioning you ability, just trying to help you troubleshoot. And you did cut the wire at the ecu and not just tap into it?

And I greatly appreciate the input . I am just becoming very upset with this situation. Here is exactly what I performed during the installation.

1. I cut the black wire on pin 104 in the smallest ECU connecter and spliced the long gray wire on the connector side and left the harness side freeballin.
2. I then located the switch in the pic above and cut the Green (w/ black stripe) wire that came from the small connecter (located ~2 inches away from the switch) and spliced the yellow wire away from the switch and the white wire towards the switch.
3. I posted the results.

I am fairly certain the wiring was correct. It would not rev past 5500 clutch in or out.
I tested the switch, worked just like Steve said it should. I have not a clue as to what I should do.

 

[92awddsm]

And I greatly appreciate the input . I am just becoming very upset with this situation. Here is exactly what I performed during the installation.

1. I cut the black wire on pin 104 in the smallest ECU connecter and spliced the long gray wire on the connector side and left the harness side freeballin.
2. I then located the switch in the pic above and cut the Green (w/ black stripe) wire that came from the small connecter (located ~2 inches away from the switch) and spliced the yellow wire away from the switch and the white wire towards the switch.
3. I posted the results.

I am fairly certain the wiring was correct. It would not rev past 5500 clutch in or out.
I tested the switch, worked just like steve said it should. I have not a clue as to what I should do.

At thi point, my guess would be a faulty clutch wire. I would contact Jeff and see if he could send you another one. You have already tested the switch itself so that has been ruled out. Beyond that, There is nothing else that could really be the problem. As steve said, if it worked fine before the clutch wire mod, it isnt the chip causing the problem.

 

[kwaliph]

Thanks 92awddsm. That was the answer I was looking for. I really hope the clutch wire is the issue and nothing more serious.

I'll call him first thing tomorrow.

I'll keeps you guys posted.

 

[titogs95]

There is no capacitor for this. The wire just adds a diode to block the stock CSS circuit from grounding the ECU. It needed because the ignition switch ground the green wire when the IG switch isn't in the start position. The diode blocks current from flowing from the ECU to the IG switch so onlt the CSS is grounding the ECU.

Steve

Sorry Mate.
I mean Diode. In top of my head the word diode didn't come off. I am so sorry

Thanks for correcting it. Steve!

As Steve stated is DIODE and it is really important. I had to installed otherwise MY stutterbox wouldn't work correctly.

 

[kwaliph]

Well I emailed the guy and he said to check the grounding switch on the back of the throttle body. What is he talking about? The switch with one green wire coming from it that the throtle cable/butterfly apparatus rests on when the throttle is fully closed?

 

[92awddsm]

Well I emailed the guy and he said to check the grounding switch on the back of the throttle body. What is he talking about? The switch with one green wire coming from it that the throtle cable/butterfly apparatus rests on when the throttle is fully closed?

That is the closed throttle switch I was talking about. It is the single wire switch that is on the linkage side of the tb. Check continuity between the teminal and ground with the throttle closed. If you dont have continuity, adjust, ground tb, or replace as needed. If you do have continuity with the throttle closed, you should lose it with the throttle open.

Unfortunately, you problems arent consistent with a faulty closed throttle switch. Im not ruling it out 100% but I would suggest you try steve's trouble shooting suggestions with the straight wire from the ecu to clutch switch if the cts checks fine. I still believe that it is the clutch wire that is the problem.

 

[kwaliph]

Now I have the clutch wire hooked up to the right switch the right way and I double checked the continuity of all the vampire clips I used. I even took the heatshrink off the clutch wire and it was setup just like Steve mentioned before (cathode to switch w/ ECU wire vs. anode away from the switch). I checked my tps closed (grounding) switch and it works perfectly. The only thing I haven't checked was the ECU wire to the ECU connector, but if that where the case, it would act like I never installed the clutch wire.

What could be the problem here? Haven't I just cancelled out every possibility mentioned throughout this thread?

 

[steve]

Since you haven't checked the ECU connector, I'll assume you haven't measure the voltage there as you push the clutch in either.

Steve