K1 Technologies Stroker Crankshaft

[gt35rx]

I'm looking into a K1 crankshaft for my stroker build. The deal I'm getting is on a 97mm crankshaft. I already have a stock 100mm 7 bolt crank. My only issue is am I going to be able to use my JE's I have, which are 8.5:1 from my previous stroker build. What are my advantages/disadvantages for changing my set up to 97mm instead of staying with my 100mm stock crank as in my previous build? I know the K1 crankshaft is by far stronger and lighter then the factory 100mm crank.

 

[dsmusmc]

Do you have a 4G63 or a 4G64 block? Good luck finding pistons/rods for a 97mm crank because you will need to have a set custom made and sell a good amount of $$$. Im would look into a 94mm crank and do a 2.2 stroker. Has pretty much the same low end as the 2.3 and can take it almost as high as a 2.0 when using the 4G63. If you use the 4G64 block and do a 2.2 destroke it can go almost as high as a 2.1 destroke.

 

[delta448]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/stroker-tech/310730-anyone-have-any-experience-2-2l.html#post151632176

By my math, if you're on a 85.5mm bore, using the 8.5:1 pistons with 150mm rods will put you at a new CR of 7.72:1.

 

[dsmusmc]

Or just use pistons made for a 2.2 engine. Manley has a complete rotating assembly.

 

[delta448]

^
On page 9 of this pdf. Looks like a much better option to me since they offer off-the-shelf long rod 2.2L parts.

I would recommend not using your JE stroker pistons with standard length rods if you decide to use the 97mm crank. There's much better geometry IMO if you use longer rods. I wouldn't want to give up the compression points either, I like 8.5-9:1. If you go with the 97mm crank, custom rods in a 151.5-152mm length should be just right for that compression range.

 

[Strm Trpr]

By my math, if you're on a 85.5mm bore, using the 8.5:1 pistons with 150mm rods will put you at a new CR of 7.72:1.

97mm stroke
85.5mm bore
150mm rods
.042" thick head gasket
47cc combustion chambers
28.7mm compression height
8.5:1 JE Stroker Pistons w/-22cc dish volume

This will yield a deck clearance of ~.070", and a compression ratio of 7.52:1...

Using a 151.5mm rod will get the deck clearance back up to 0.3mm (.012"), and increase compression to 8.25:1.

Throw in a thicker head gasket like a .055" thick Felpro Perma Torque and your compression just came back down to 8.08:1.

What's wrong with your 2.3L set-up?

As far as your advantages and disadvantages goes, it's more of a PITA to get this 97mm set-up to work with your current pistons.
You would need custom rods and K1 will cut you some for $600 or so, but you'd still be down to around 8.25:1 with the use of an OEM composite head gasket.
Throw in a thicker gasket like a Felpro and you'd be down around 8.1:1.

What are your power goals?

I know twicks69 has twisted an OEM 4G64 crank in his 2.3L Stroker to over 1000 crank horsepower.
If you're doing better than that, well, then I guess you wouldn't be in here asking us this question now would you?

 

[delta448]

I'm curious how you worked out the math Chris, we can go PM on that though. I wasn't sure I didn't miss something in my calculation, but I based it off of displacement for that bore and stroke and worked backward from 8.5:1 adding TDC volume by how much more below deck the crown would be with 150mm rods.

Also, do you know which head is 43cc and which is 47cc? I've seen both listed in catalogs like Manley's that I linked above. I assumed the 2G head was 43cc.

 

[juvi1624]

I know twicks69 has twisted an OEM 4G64 crank in his 2.3L Stroker to over 1000 crank horsepower.
If you're doing better than that, well, then I guess you wouldn't be in here asking us this question now would you?

MAPerformance also runs an OEM crank in the FDSM and that thing dyno'd over 1000 RWHP.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Evo's run a 43cc combustion chamber volume and DSM's run a 47cc combustion chamber.
That difference alone is enough for that discrepancy you see.

I use this handy calculator on Eagle's site.
Eagle Specialty Products, Inc. - Home

I've done the math too, and I've compared the math to the calculator and they are close enough.

I'm not telling you this, you already know, but this is for others out there:

Compression Ratio is calc'd as follows:
Total Cylinder Volume/Compressed Volume
Piston dish volume is also a very critical part of the calculation and it's not shown here in this pic.
This picture shown a flat top piston with no recess or dish volume...

MAPerformance also runs an OEM crank in the FDSM and that thing dyno'd over 1000 RWHP.

Well there you go.
Another beast running hella power thru an OEM crank.

 

[dsmusmc]

Also, do you know which head is 43cc and which is 47cc? I've seen both listed in catalogs like Manley's that I linked above. I assumed the 2G head was 43cc.

Evo's run a 43cc combustion chamber volume and DSM's run a 47cc combustion chamber.

Both 1G and 2G heads are 47cc but the Hyundai heads are 43cc.

Im not sure if he still does but I could have sworn that Kiggly used an OEM crank for the longest time.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Both 1G and 2G heads are 47cc but the Hyundai heads are 43cc.

I concur.

 

[gt35rx]

My power goals are 700+ AWHP on a 4g63 block. I have read about people using the 100mm cranks and having success with them and also those not making 1000 crank hp and snapping them. I have talked to some of the major engine builders and have been told the same thing. Only reason of me wanting to go this way instead of my 100mm current setup is I got a really good deal on the K1 crankshaft w/rods and its added piece of mind. My original problem was that I have a 100mm crank which comes in the older 7 bolt engines, which aren't nitrated vs. the newer 7 bolt cranks. I talked to Nick @ JE and they can make a custom set of pistons which should yield to be the easier route for this build.

 

[dsmusmc]

So you already have the 97mm or you can get a good deal on one?

 

[gt35rx]

I already have the 97mm crank

 

[delta448]

Only reason of me wanting to go this way instead of my 100mm current setup is I got a really good deal on the K1 crankshaft w/rods and its added piece of mind.

So you already have off the shelf 150mm K1 rods... that is probably where I would've taken a different route. If I was building it, the only way I would use 150mm rods is in a 63 block and 100mm crank combo.

I talked to Nick @ JE and they can make a custom set of pistons which should yield to be the easier route for this build.

When you get them, post up the specs on the pistons and some pictures please. It's something that might be pretty useful in the future to those looking at using any one of the uncommon 97mm stroke cranks out there.

 

[dsmusmc]

I just wondered because if you ment you could get a deal on any K1 the 94mm or 100mm would be alot easier and cheaper to build. I honestly have never heard of the 97mm crank until this thread and dont think there would be much difference in low end and rod ratio then the 100mm crank but interesting to hear more about.

 

[gt35rx]

Yes, I will post pics as soon as the parts arrive. The K1 crank came with their K1 150mm rods. It was hard to find info on this set-up because no one in the DSM community is doing this build and a lot of the Evo guys are. The Rod/Stroke Ratio is a little better then the 100mm set-up but not by much; that wasn't the reason I chose to go this route. I tried to swap my 97mm to a 100mm K1 crank but instead Tom from K1 connected me with Nick from JE for a great deal.

 

[dsmusmc]

Tom from K1 connected me with Nick from JE for a great deal.

I would have thought he would rather connect you with Wiseco sense they are in business together.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Did you decide to build your motor with this 97mm crankshaft?

 

[gt35rx]

Did you decide to build your motor with this 97mm crankshaft?

Yeah I decided to go this route. Pistons are a month away from being custom made.

 

[jdsoza]

having the 97mm crank will help improve the torque and also allow it to be revved higher than the 100mm crank will. I know like 7 evo guys who have the 97mm crank with long rods, and they make a great power band. If i had a 7-bolt i would def go this route.

 

[delta448]

... I know like 7 evo guys who have the 97mm crank with long rods, ...

What rods are they using? Got a link?

 

[jdsoza]

Custom GRP Rods and Custom Arias pistons. I am trying to get a hold of my buddy for more info on his set-up. I want him to get me the measurements of his pistons and rods. I kinda stopped hanging out with a lot of the guys having a baby on the way and such, limits my time for car meets. I do know that on his built motor he was turning about 8800 RPM. Any real engine shop should be able to measure deck height, piston height, and stroke to know what length of rod to use. Most are just lazy and don't want to take the extra time, but part of this is also checking all clearances properly as well. I am going to call my old instructor mike jones and see if he can help me here. Does anybody know what the stock deck height is and also the stock piston height from bottom of the skirt to top on the piston? If I can get those two measurements accurately from a micrometer i most likely will be able to calculate the rod length for you. And if my instructor calls me back then i will def have an answer and a little more help.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Custom GRP Rods and Custom Arias pistons. I am trying to get a hold of my buddy for more info on his set-up. I want him to get me the measurements of his pistons and rods. I kinda stopped hanging out with a lot of the guys having a baby on the way and such, limits my time for car meets. I do know that on his built motor he was turning about 8800 RPM. Any real engine shop should be able to measure deck height, piston height, and stroke to know what length of rod to use. Most are just lazy and don't want to take the extra time, but part of this is also checking all clearances properly as well. I am going to call my old instructor mike jones and see if he can help me here. Does anybody know what the stock deck height is and also the stock piston height from bottom of the skirt to top on the piston? If I can get those two measurements accurately from a micrometer i most likely will be able to calculate the rod length for you. And if my instructor calls me back then i will def have an answer and a little more help.

Total rotating assembly height is calculated using compression height, half of the crankshaft stroke and center-to-center rod length.
Compression height is the distance from the axis of the wrist pin to the crown of the piston.
OEM is 35mm.
2.3L stroker pistons are typically 28.7mm.
It's a 6.3mm difference.
The 6mm difference is half of the additional stroke from the 100mm stroker crank, the 0.3mm is deck clearance so the piston sits below the deck on the block by 0.3mm or .012".
Deck Height is the distance from the axis of the crankshaft's main journal to the deck.
OEM it is 229mm, or 9.016".
Here's a little exercise for you.
229mm - 35mm - half of the 2.0L crankshafts stroke = what rod center-to-center distance?
Now do the same with the 2.3L stroker set-up.

I'll be running a 156mm Long Rod 2.0L using a custom compression 2.3L piston and a 88mm crankshaft....

 

[gt35rx]

Well It has been 6 months since starting this build. I'm finally going to get the engine back from my builder next week. I will be posting pics and specs of the build. It's been a long time since I've driven my X and this build will be better and stronger then my last.