Jake H's 1G Rear Wheel Drive Build

[97eclipseNT]

i like that rearend setup it never even ran accross my mind to use the front mounts for the rear subframe to mount the crossmember looks good! i think what he ment by "bizzare IC" was the instant center you would get with the 4link bars at the angles they are at.

 

[97eclipseNT]

http://www.performancetrends.com/images/4link-all.gif correct me if i'm wrong but if i rememmber right you want to try to get your instant center high because you'll get a higher percentage of anti-squat and the car will plant the tires.

 

[topstreet]

http://www.performancetrends.com/images/4link-all.gif correct me if i'm wrong but if i rememmber right you want to try to get your instant center high because you'll get a higher percentage of anti-squat and the car will plant the tires.

Thanks for filling in on that one. I would like to say that was planned for, but in reality... I Forest Gump'ed that one.

Jake Hanhardt

 

[97eclipseNT]

the car looks good though jake. Did that rear need narrowed at all or was it the right width right out of the truck you got it from?

 

[topstreet]

the car looks good though jake. Did that rear need narrowed at all or was it the right width right out of the truck you got it from?

Thanks! The rear axle measures 59 1/2" WMS-WMS (wheel mounting surface). I just ballparked it with a tape measure, but I got a hair over 60" on the stock IRS 4bolt. So the total wheelbase should only be 3/4" or so shorter. But no the axle did not get shortened.

Jake Hanhardt

 

[97eclipseNT]

you can't beat that at all i've been thinking about doing something like this except awd just so i don't have as many rearend issues.

 

[iamtall77]

I've been away for a while, but Jake, you definitely have to get one of Bill's R154 bellhousings. These things are incredibly strong and well made. You'll need to shorten the stock R154 input shaft end by about 1/8" and cut the stock throw out bearing sleeve off. Then you can simply bolt the bellhousing up. You also need to machine out the hole in the flywheel to accept a standard Toyota pilot bearing. You can use any DSM pressure plate and a 9" Toyota style friction disk.

The bellhousing has provisions in it to run a push style slave cylinder, but Bill is working on a hydraulic throw out bearing option. He's also doing a GM TH350 style adaptor plate and a GM T56 bellhousing.

The price for the piece is reasonable at about $400 with hardware. I'm sure he can work with the price for you if you can get him aboard for sponsorship. He's a great guy to work with. I'll try to attach a few pictures to show you what I got from Bill to put in my Datsun 510. The bellhousings are also setup for 1G, 2G, and EVO motors. The 1G versions (6 bolts) have provisions for some custom bracing Bill made for them. Not that they're needed.

 

[topstreet]

Hey Man!

Theres no denying the sexiness there! It is definitely a quality unit. I am always interested in taking on sponsorships too. I was just hoping to pull this one off myself. We'll see I guess.

The clutch I'm using is a 7.25" v-drive quartermaster. I have the supra splined disc available to me with this, so I am going to keep that, and just machine the flywheel for the pilot bearing.

We'll see.... Maybe I will get started on the tranny sooner then later and see how it goes. Thanks again for all you help with this one!

Jake Hanhardt

edit: I forgot to add that I am probably going to use a Howe hydraulic throw out bearing too.

 

[RipperXX]

^ So that bell housing lets you bolt a R154 tranny to the 4G63!?





DAMN IT! *wish's he still had his MKIII Turbo now*

 

[Kevin Jewer]

, I lost track of this somehow. I was indeed referring to the Instant Center those bar angles will get you. On second thought it may be irrrelevant, since completely parallel bars put the IC out at infinity and you end up with 100% antisquat, or no antisquat and no squat, as I understand things. That's a good safe situation that many non-performance cars seem to go for (factory cars, lowriders/minitrucks, etc), but for traction you want some anti-squat to hit the tire on the launch before enough load transfers to give you traction from there on. You're going to want to play with it more later in testing/tuning, but those bracket locations might make it tough.

To try to give you a visual of what you want, consider a few points. Where the front end of two bars would intersect if they continued on long enough to do so is where the instant center is located. To determine whether a given IC would give you squat or anti-squat, find the neutral line for your car. Draw a vertical line through the center of the front tire, and a horizontal line through the car's CG, then from where those two lines intersect (right above front tire) to the center of the contact patch of the rear tire. If your IC falls below this line you'll get squat (front end lifts, rear end squats), above this line you get anti-squat. The further you get from the line, the bigger the effect. Right on the line, you get neither. Somehow an IC out in front of the car at an infinite distance (from parallel bars) is the same as being on the line (no effect) for reasons beyond my understanding. The easiest thing for you to do to start with might be to put the two bars in adjacent front holes if possible essentially converting it to a ladder bar (if they could be mounted in the same hole the IC would be right at that hole, very simple to control). Then go from there. Or leave them parallel, which should be a relatively "safe" setting anyway, and deal with it later. A typical 4 bar setup would have the lower bar point slightly up from parallel with the ground, and the upper pointing down at the angle that puts the IC out at the distance you want.

I'm in no way an expert on the subject of chassis setup, believe me. I'm still learning tons of info about this subject almost daily as I work on dialing in my own car. Despite 1.20 sixty foots and moderately low ETs, the car does struggle with traction even on decent track surfaces. I have videos of low 9 second passes where the car is clearly leaving rubber the entire length and sliding all over the place (gently). The more I learn, the more I realize how poorly this car is setup. You should take advantage of the headstart you can get during the build phase and get it as close to the ballpark as you can to make testing/tuning easier later. I need to actually swap parts and move mounts etc to get mine setup properly... Huge pain in the asshole.

 

[topstreet]

Thanks Kevin!

Its seems like the only time you speak up is when you are able to help, and for that I am very appreciative.

The lower link is going to end up, basically right next to the upper link, is my guess. All the research I have done on it shows that light weight, stiffer springs, ect.... wants a very short IC. Basically, I have a slight amount more adjust-ability (and much more drive-ability) then a ladder bar, but the ladder bar may have been a really good track choice with its pivot point being such a short distance from the rear wheels center. I barely understood that one, so hopefully I dont have to try and explain it better.

Kevin... I wouldn't feel bad about the 1.20s 60's either. I do understand what you are saying though. I have a few local friends here (non-dsm imports) that are pulling fairly consistent 1.1 & 1.2 60's, and I think they would be willing to pitch in and help me if we ran into each other at the track.

Jake Hanhardt

 

[kicker91laser]

Very nice build Jake. It will be interesting to see how this turns out, it is nice to see a street-driven rwd coming up.

 

[turbobrian]

This is a great build and I LOVE to see custom metal fabrication! Hope to see more pictures here. Good luck!

 

[topstreet]

Alright!!!

I made a couple small jumps today that effectively are giant leaps!

First things first: I finally got the balls to just jump in and do the work I needed to on my rear axles. This consisted of machining the Major OD, the rotor hub-centric, clearancing the rear for the stud's flange head, and re-drilling them out for a 5 lug dsm pattern. Every thing turned out awesome! I still need to de-burr them, but now a ton of doors just opened up. This allows me to finish weld my shock tabs for the correct ride height. Make and finish brake brackets. And determine wheel placement for clearancing and fitment.

Next is a simple one that I was hoping I would have been able to do more with. I may give these another shot at some point in the future. Basically, I need to still be able to seal the wheel bearing grease seal and tighten the front wheel bearings up. Normally this is done with the front CV shafts, so this is kinda like that. I am going to cut them down further and drill out the centers if I get a chance. This is a very hard metal though, and was killing the cutting bits we were using, so I just said "good enough".

Hows That!

Jake Hanhardt

 

[topstreet]

Heres a few more...

Jake Hanhardt

 

[99gst_racer]

Jake, glad to see you guys were able to get the axles machined without needing to send them out.

 

[topstreet]

Jake, glad to see you guys were able to get the axles machined without needing to send them out.

Yeah... That is the "got the balls" part I was talking about. I wasnt really too excited about chopping up a perfectly good set of axles, because (being the first time doing something like that) if I screwed up... I just wasted them to save a buck. It worked out pretty well though. I wasnt even planning on doing the lug holes, but my friend had the equipment and said lets do it. Cant argue with that.

It was pretty simple by the time I was all finished. The inside edge of the axle was machined flat to accept the smaller bolt pattern. The front face was machined to the size of the brake rotor ID. Then the flange OD was taken down to roughly the size of the stock mitsu IRS flange.

Then With the rotor acting as the hub-centric, we transfer punched the holes and drilled them out.

I forgot to take a picture of the cut off axles when I was finished with them. They are not much better, but a little bit.

Jake Hanhardt

 

[topstreet]

Snapped a few pics of the old/modified cv axles. I was planning on taking them down further and drilling out the centers, but the metal has been hardened too much for the cutting bits we were using. I will go back to them in the future some time in the future.

If anyone wants the left over axle parts let me know. I made sure to keep the outer boots in nice shape. The axles only had about 100 miles on them.

Jake Hanhardt

 

[turboglenn]

Very nice work, Gives a guy lie me some inspriation to turn my DSM into a full on stret driven race car (RWD and all!! ) Over the years i've accumalated the equipment to do just about all of it except machining the engine block and head. But have just never had teh drive to take on such a project on my own. I've done a little bit of everything you've done/had done here and tehre over the years, but never have had the balls to take on ripping my own ride apart to completely transform it. It's good to see some one much like myself with more time and resources than money be able to build what might as well be a "top fuel level" build at home with minimal outlay compared to just buying and assembling the same car.

Much repsect...the inspiration from this thread already has me started on a SMIM, my own turbo mani and starting to gather part for the RWD conversion. The car is not legal in anystate besides NE anyway at this point and being military family i cna keep it licensed here to be street driven for als long as my wife's enlisted

I absolutely can't waut o see your ride finished and out there terrorizing the streets while keeping me motivated on my build (except i'm only going to be pushing 575-600 w/ a 100 shot on top of an Hc1 at 30-35psi on E85.

I love everything about my car excep there's wasn't a RWD version.. You're showingthat it's possible by some one that's just a good fab guy and mechanic..very cool!!

 

[wishihadatalon]

Looks great Jake.

 

[airmail96]

Your doing some truely awesome work jake keep it up man.

 

[myblack98gst]

any updates??

 

[illegal99si]

Any updates on the rwd build yet

 

[topstreet]

Sorry for not updating very much lately. Just been trying to earn a buck like everyone else.

I did pickup a donor car for a new engine. I am going to be selling the crank soon out of the old one if any body is interested. (FFWD lightened, knife-edged, cryoed, stroker, crank)

I will get some pictures of it when I get a chance. Of the motor going in when I get there.

 

[Bender]

Any more progress done? I am about to start a RWD buildup on my 2g, because in the long run I think it would be cheaper than going through a built transmission every 2 weeks. I was wondering particularly more on your 4 link setup, because it looks like you may be able to use your stock shock mounts, which would save money, and time with having to cut out your trunk floor and going with a frame setup with qa1 coilovers or equivalent. Also, I was wondering if you had some pics of the front k-member? Is it a tubular design or just modified stock subframe? I'm looking to go with a tubular set up, but am always open to other ideas.