Is it safe to run with no thermostat? [Merged 8-7] No, no, no, no.

[GstRacer]

ya i was wondering if it's good or bad to run no thermostat i know it will run cold witch is good but is there a thing as too clod i also have a blitz 1.3 radiator cap

 

[nightspeed87]

What is water pump cavitation? The good thing regarding regulating operating temps is that my digital fan controller will handle that. What I saw while driving was with fans always on. I'm going to set my fans to come on at 190 and off at 180.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation#Cavitation_in_engines

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Ok I thought that was covered already earlier in the thread. Particularly noting this excerpt from wikipedia:

Some bigger diesel engines suffer from cavitation due to high compression and undersized cylinder walls. Vibrations of the cylinder wall induce alternating low and high pressure in the coolant against the cylinder wall. The result is pitting of the cylinder wall that will eventually let cooling fluid leak into the cylinder and combustion gases to leak into the coolant.

It is possible to prevent this from happening with chemical additives in the cooling fluid that form a protecting layer on the cylinder wall. This layer will be exposed to the same cavitation, but rebuilds itself.

Seems to me that a surfectant like water wetter is the type of additive they are talking about. I use two bottles of it.

 

[Defiant]

What is water pump cavitation?

As a propeller or impeller blade moves through a fluid, it creates low pressure areas on it. Entrained air in the fluid will form into bubbles under the correct conditions, creating turbulence. This turbulence will feed more turbulence, more bubbling and eventually molecular boiling, where the actual material of the propeller will begin to erode.

The good thing regarding regulating operating temps is that my digital fan controller will handle that. What I saw while driving was with fans always on. I'm going to set my fans to come on at 190 and off at 180.

That's low. I'd go for 200°F, or 205°F.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

This is good info, thanks. Well considering I have upgraded basically every imaginable part of my cooling system and I'm still running about 193* with no thermostat and fans always on, I'm beginning to suspect my headgasket. That's the only thing left that could be causing my car to run hot without my fans.

 

[Defiant]

193°F isn't hot for a DSM. What are you measuring the temperature with?

 

[spinz4]

Most likely DSMlink. Im going to play with this as well. Im thinking about just drilling some holes in the thermostat..

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

193°F isn't hot for a DSM. What are you measuring the temperature with?

Yep, dsmlink. And that's 193* with the fans always on high. If I let the ecu handle it, my car will run 210 to 220* when it is about 90* outside. That's well outside my comfort zone. I know 200-206 is normal factory temps but I still prefer above 180* where ecu can adjust fuel trims, and no higher than 195 so I stay away from any timing pulled. Also, hot engine temps drive up intake temps and I don't want my timing pulled any more than it has to be there either. My car never ran this hot until I upgraded to externally gated 50 trim setup. It used to run nice and cool on the T28. I think I may have blown my headgasket on some hard pulls.

I'm about to tap a dakota digital 0-300F sender for a separate gauge and fan controller, so that'll give me another reference.

 

[Defiant]

Are you getting any symptoms other that this "high" reading? Find another way to measure it. I think you're chasing ghosts.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I'm not imagining this problem. I've observed the temps that my car runs at for years on various setups. It used to never run hotter than 210 on the hottest summer day here and fans off when I had mild mods.

Today I was driving home from work and my car reached 227*, fans on all the time, and despite all my cooling system upgrades. It's 90F outside. When it hits dead summer here I'm going to overheat. After I seal my dp exhaust leak I'm going to have to determine if this is my headgasket. That and the water pump are the only remaining parts I haven't replaced or upgraded.

 

[Car Cannibal]

To bad no one makes a high volume electric water pump for us, combined with a 180 thermo you would get the best of both worlds ( gas/performance ).
Reverse cooling would be icing on the cake.

 

[bojanglesracing]

So how old are you temp sending units? You know they go bad over the time. It could be they are off on the temps. If it was a head gasket you would be loseing coolant or find oil in you coolant and have white smoke.

 

[topnotchgsx]

You can utilize a miezere (spelling) electric water pumps on our cars, but that cost some money.

Checking the temp sending units would also be a good idea. And have you got that new dakota controller installed yet? That will tell us more.

 

[drivemusicnow]

meziere water pump is not the way to go.

Rice over wheat: the most important thing for your cooling system is airflow through the radiator. Post some pictures of how you have your fans mounted on your radiator, as well as any ducting/shielding you have left from stock or that you've added. I guarantee that with some proper ductwork, and a decent shroud for your fans, your temps will stay wherever you want them too.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Well disregard my abnormally hot temps yesterday...I figured out that problem. When I removed my thermostat I didn't bother RTVing the housing and I gradually was losing coolant. I had about half my coolant when I checked it this morning. That was pretty dumb, . With full coolant I'm running about 200-206F on a 90F day, fans always on.

I'm not really concerned with temps while I am cruising. I'm aiming for low temps while idling because in bumper to bumper conjested city driving that's most critical to me and that's where the fans do the most work for displacing heat.

I posted a vid of my airflow before in my SPAL thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258913

And pics here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258897&page=2

 

[drivemusicnow]

I think I have it.

Do you know how to bleed your coolant system? A lot of people forget to do this, and ends up being a huge problem. When refilling the coolant you NEED to put the heater on full blast, let the car warm up to past where the thermostat would be fully open, all while keeping a funnel with coolant in it in the rad. Otherwise you end up with air in the system and your cooling system in general is not efficient. Also, make sure your overflow is not over filled.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Yeah I was burping the system like that. I just got done fixing my dp exhaust leak that was still blowing on my radiator and I RTV'd the thermostat housing. I ran the car and with it about 84F outside I was idling at 160F with the fans always on and hood open. So far so good, now let's see if it stays low in gridlock traffic.

Next week I'll have my new digital coolant gauge and 0-300F sender for my dakota digital dual fan controller.

 

[Defiant]

It's not that I think you're imagining the problem, but that you haven't said anything about proving the calibration of the instrument your measuring your temperature with. When a number comes up out of the ordinary without an obvious cause, one of the primary suspects should always be the messenger. You're anticipation of a problem you haven't experienced will drive you nuts.

Which is rather a luxury for those of us who made the trip by walking.

 

[pyr0frk]

um yea, you all are uneducated. If you run with no thermostat your car will actually overheat, because you give no time for the coolant to cool in the radiator. And yes its very bad to run without a thermostat.

 

[c711]

um yea, you all are uneducated. If you run with no thermostat your car will actually overheat, because you give no time for the coolant to cool in the radiator. And yes its very bad to run without a thermostat.

that is wrong. Bullshit!

the thermostat stays close till the engine warm up, Coolant has only to flow around the engine.
when the water temp is high enough the thermostat will open and the coolant will flow through the radiator to cool.
And if the watertemp gets to low, the termostat will close again.

But if you run without it, it takes long to warm up nothing more. the car is running too rich in the warm up, soo it will be a bad performance if you go with out a thermostat.
You can not overheat it, a thermostat is not more then a Gatekeeper, it is no voodoo that cools the engine!

Regards
c711

 

[Locke]

pyr0frk is speaking about the relationship between flow and time, as it concerns heat transfer. It is an issue for all out race only motors, but one left to be debated in it's own thread.

OP: Just purchase a thermostat.

 

[damnslowtsi]

If you have to run with no thermostat for any reason, at least gut the old one (remove the valve) and put the restrictor plate back in. Without it the water pump will create less, if at all, water pressure in the block/head and as we all know less pressure=lower boiling point as well as more air pockets and more local hot spots. Running no t-stat on any more or less modern, computer controlled vehicle is bad.

 

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

I have a friend with a Del-Sol D series who doesnt run a thermostat at all and his car runs on C the whole time, never even runs up to the middle mark or even the 1/4th mark.. Now I dont plan on removing my thermo, but I would like to know why its a bad idea to do what he is doing. I saw about a week ago that someone said not to do that to any car after 197x? So, what is bad about running with no thermo? thanks

 

[MountainDew]

Maybe I'm the stupid one, but I am failing to see the sense in never running a thermostat. To me that is just dangerous for your car and stupid to do. How would running no thermostat even benefit you?

 

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

Well thats the thing man.. That is why I am asking the question. Because, like I said, my friend has a Del-Sol and doesnt run a thermostat and it keeps his car cool the whole time he drives.. I rode with him for 30 minutes and it stayed at the C the whole time. I dont know why but in his case, it seems to benefit his car since it keeps the engine running at under normal temp. This is why I asked the question.. why is it not a good idea to run with no thermostat?

 

[MountainDew]

Well I don't really know how exactly a thermostat works. The reason it's staying on C the whole time is because there's no thermostat! Lol, it's not there so it's just going to read C. Because pretty much on any car you drive, it will go up to 1/4 or half way when it's warmed up. He has nothing measuring the temperature though.

I'm saying it's not a good idea because if the car was starting to overheat or something you would not be "warned" from the gauge. A thermostat is like 9 bucks at Autozone. I just don't see why he wouldn't run one.