Is a staged(not all at once) fuel sys upgrade ok?

[drag97GSX]

I have all the parts for my fuel system upgrade, save the fuel line/fittings from the filter to the apfr and back to the fuel rail and the connector to attach the gauge to the afpr itself. My question is, is it ok to do the injectors and AFC II now or should i wait to do it all at once? Might be a week or so before i get the parts ordered.

Upgrade includes:

FIC 650's
Apex'i AFC II
Walbro 255lph HP
Aeromotive AFPR
Autometer FP guage

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i'd maybe wait on the injectors until ya have the pump and fpr in. but as far as the afc, have at it. it'd help ya get use to it at least until you get the other stuff in at least.

 

[iwantawd]

"save the fuel line/fittings from the filter to the apfr and back to the fuel rail"

What am I missing here? Are you saying it goes...

pump > fuel rail > filter > fpr > fuel rail > and then return lines???

Maybe it was just a typo but just checking.

filter > fuel rail > fpr > return

 

[v8s_are_slow]

What am I missing here? Are you saying it goes...

pump > fuel rail > filter > fpr > fuel rail > and then return lines???

Maybe it was just a typo but just checking.

filter > fuel rail > fpr > return

most of the time, people throw on an aftermarket fuel rail to get out that extra ounce of fuel. as well as the fuel line upgrades and any kind of aftermarket fuel filter. but overall, the easiest way to get additional fuel is to do the fuel pump rewire. next would be the pump and fpr at the same time (cause if you don't do the fpr, the fuel pressure will be really high), and then the injectors and afc to be able to lean it out. but afc can go in 1st if ya wanted to just to start getting the hang of things.

 

[iwantawd]

The point of my post was to straighten out whether or not he was saying that that is the order that the fuel setup goes in not an upgrade path. He made it sound to me at least that the fpr goes before the fuel rail, this just wouldn't do because there would be no way for it to hold pressure then. Are we on the same page?

 

[v8s_are_slow]

oh okay. my bad. sounded like ya wanted the upgrade path. sorry

 

[98spydert]

When he said "save" he meant "except"

He meant he has a full fuel system upgrade except for the lines, filter, and rail.

Yes, you can throw on the injectors and SAFC before the rest. Make sure to put the pump, AFPR, and gauge on at the same time though. You probably know that already.

Just remember that with 650s and the stock fuel pump, you're not going to be able to get any more fuel than you can now. So you'd only be getting the install out of the way.

 

[drag97GSX]

Yeah, sorry...shoulda clarified. Was late last night when i wrote it. Meant lines from the rail to fpr and back, gonna get SS lines for that. Basically it all boils down to the fittings for the AFPR and Guage and SS fuel lines. Don't have those yet, have all the rest of it. I know i can't get more fuel than i am right now with the bigger injectors, just wanna have less to install each time (read: less downtime). Will go ahead and do the AFC and injectors then. Thanks all.

 

[iwantawd]

When he said "save" he meant "except"

You think so brainiac? To bad the whole point of my post was focusing on this part, "filter to the apfr and back to the fuel rail." Now unless I'm mistaken numb nuts, there is one fuel line into the FPR from the rail, one out to return fuel to the tank, and one vacuum line. No fuel line back into the fuel rail is all I meant which is what he said and has now corrected.
Now I laugh at you

Now drag97, put the AFC in first but from what I read on the net 650cc's may be to big for it to handle. What you can do right now is the FPR, then again maybe not if you're planning to use all SS lines and fittings. So that would leave you with nothing to install right now.

Personally, it looks like you're building an all out fuel system with the "lowest" of all fuel controllers. Again, I don't believe it can even handle 650cc's and I would not spend my money on it.
Also, when you get your SS lines don't forget a new filter.

 

[drag97GSX]

Your point about the SAFC II is understood IWANTAWD. However, what i am doing is installing the best group of supporting mods for the current build stage of my car. I know the safc can't control the 650's as well as it can 550's. I have done lots of research on the topic but would rather be safe than sorry and not end up running too lean at higher boost on the EvoIII. The thing is that the AEM EMS i plan on ending up with would be way overkill with my current setup. After the fuel control comes ALL the tranny work...clutch, flywheel, Shep rebuild... Next comes the cams, springs, retainers and cam gears. After that come the SMIM and exhaust mani. Then on the the EMS and FP3065. See what i am saying now? What i have done and will continue to do is get a very strong core group of upgrades for the mod level of the car. I have also made sure and work all the bugs out/tuned my current upgrades to make sure it is running at Max Q(100%) and is a step FORWARD and not back. I have been very strict in my mods (but that FP3065 sure is purdy ). Hope that clears up any doubts/concerns you have. Thanks again for your help everyone.

 

[92awddsm]

You think so brainiac? To bad the whole point of my post was focusing on this part, "filter to the apfr and back to the fuel rail." Now unless I'm mistaken numb nuts, there is one fuel line into the FPR from the rail, one out to return fuel to the tank, and one vacuum line. No fuel line back into the fuel rail is all I meant which is what he said and has now corrected.
Now I laugh at you

Now drag97, put the AFC in first but from what I read on the net 650cc's may be to big for it to handle. What you can do right now is the FPR, then again maybe not if you're planning to use all SS lines and fittings. So that would leave you with nothing to install right now.

Personally, it looks like you're building an all out fuel system with the "lowest" of all fuel controllers. Again, I don't believe it can even handle 650cc's and I would not spend my money on it.
Also, when you get your SS lines don't forget a new filter.

Ok drag97gsx, forget this post above, evidently he doesnt know much of what he is speaking of and according to his profile, he doesnt have any experience with it either. You can install the 650's but wil also need the afc at the same time. The afc wil controll them with no problems. The only downside to this will be that you will end up with a pretty radical timing curve. I do suggest that you do a fp rewire at the same time but beyond that, everything will work fine with no problem, just some tuning involved.

Im not sure where anyone came up with a fuel rail upgrade because it is not needed(unless you run over a -8an feed line) so just disregard that post also.

And as far as the afc being bottom of the line, wrong. It might be the cheapest and easiest, but far from bottom of the line. There have been lots of people that went much faster with just an afc than iwantawd will go with what he thinks "works best". Its been around, and been proven. It just needs some different tuning(less than dsm link requires) to work to its optimum.

 

[iwantawd]

You seem to have some trouble with comprehending what you read. I said MAY be to big, I think I made it pretty clear I was unsure of whether the AFC could handle such large injectors because I remembered some number in the 500's (550 as drag97gsx pointed out) as the magical number not to pass when using the AFC but I didn't say any actual number because I was unsure. I'll be the first to admit I don't know shit about the AFC because I'll never be using it, but I will know by the end of the week.

Please don't try and tell me that a car running some time in the 1/4 or making so much horsepower tuned "well" with the AFC is going to perform just as good as the same car with the Link or a standalone tuned well. Thats just retarded and you damn well know it and you know thats what I meant. It's optimum, as you put it, is below that of what the others can do. I'm talking peak power among other things, the AFC can't give it to you for any given setup no matter how fast you can actually go with it. That was my point, not so hard to see is it?

Continuing with your reading comprehension problems, no one told him to upgrade his fuel rail. V8's_are_slow explained what a larger I.D. with an aftermarket one would do through our little misunderstanding.

But hey, drag97gsx, disregard every post but the one before mine.

Oh I almost forgot, I guess I should update my profile so you can base all your judgements of me on it.

 

[98spydert]

Edited: Wasting my time with stupid people

 

[GVR4592]

In some situations the safc will have trouble with 650 or larger injectors due to too much timing advance. This is mostly on 91 and later 1g cars because they have the most aggressive factory timing maps. You are 2g so it should be fine. As for the fuel system upgrade, safc and injectors is fine for now. Just don't go cranking the boost up and expect your stock pump to keep up. It seems like you have a pretty good idea of what you are doing. I did things pretty much in the same order you are doing them. Just don't forget the fuel pump rewire, it's just as important as every other part of the fuel system. The extra voltage will help keep the flow up when the fuel pressure gets really high.

I thought my fuel system was expensive and then some of my brothers parts came in today. He's still waiting on the rail, injectors, and some more fittings, that all should have been here today

 

[iwantawd]

When my answer comes from those who have done it already, then I couldn't care less whether or not you think its questionable. It's called research, I like to play it safe so no I would not go above the 550cc's that many recommend for such a limited tool. Some say its ok some say you can go higher.


So sorry if I hurt your feelings
I'm done with this pissing contest, he's made his decision already.

Good point GVR, having a 2g is something I overlooked. Now he just has to worry about logging knock.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

i went with a weird way..

i had a walboro 190 fuel pump already.. had stock injectors with ported big16g

after bought an safc.. ritchen it up before i got injectors

then got the B&M fpr mod to increase FP to be even more rich with stock injectors

removed big16g got a 50trim.. finally i was hitting fuel cut..

got my denso 660s.. lowered FP back to stock (because B&M can only increase.. not decrease) and everything worked out ok..

 

[drag97GSX]

Good to hear. Will get it done tomorrow. Thanks a ton to all those who replied. Would take pics of install, but it's probably been covered 854,126,473 times.

 

[98spydert]

Why did you increase fuel delivery with the SAFC on stock injectors? The stock maps are already ridiculously rich. Once your injectors go static (100% IDC) you can't get any more fuel out of them by piggy back hacking. It doesn't matter now since you've already moved past that point but no one else should take this approach.

Increasing the fuel pressure, on the other hand, will increase fuel delivery on stock injectors. It will also alter the fuel delivery at any airflow point though so you will need to compensate with some sort of fuel management.

 

[spyderturbo007]

You seem to have some trouble with comprehending what you read. I said MAY be to big, I think I made it pretty clear I was unsure of whether the AFC could handle such large injectors

Rule number 3 = No Guessing - if you don't know the answer, don't reply - bad advice can be worse than no advice (no "I think" or "I guess" or "I've heard").


650's are fine and no problem to tune with using the SAFC. I am using 650's and would suggest using 650's to the original poster. You can very easily max out 550's with a EVO III 16g.

Using 660cc injectors, pump gas, 11:1 AFR and assuming that at some point you max out the 16g @ 44lbs/min. You will be running 90% IDC. So you can see that if you want to push the limits of the 16g you really need 650's.

Please don't try and tell me that a car running some time in the 1/4 or making so much horsepower tuned "well" with the AFC is going to perform just as good as the same car with the Link or a standalone tuned well.

No one said anything remotely close to that? Where are you getting your information? And you are the one blasting people for reading comprehension....weird

Some say its ok some say you can go higher.

Once again we get back to the I heard, or someone told me. If you don't have any experience with it, then keep your opinons / hear say information to yourself.

I have gone higher.....so be quiet!

I like to play it safe so no I would not go above the 550cc's that many recommend for such a limited tool. Some say its ok some say you can go higher.

That makes no sense at all! The 16g is VERY CAPABLE of maxing out 550's. It is NOT going to max out 650's. What if something were to happen to the wastegate and you were running 550's?

Safe is having more fuel "on hand" than you need. Safe is not running smaller injectors than can support your turbo just because you heard you shouldn't.

To the original poster, listen to 98spydert, RedTurboEclipse and 92awddsm, not iwantawd!

Thank you and have a nice day!

 

[iwantawd]

You are truely retarded and have serious problems with reading. My choice with the 550's is because of the AFC not because of the turbo. Sweet jesus, if he was getting his ecu chipped there would be no problem but he didn't say that and I didn't realize he had a 2g as apposed to my 1g which would be even worse off with that setup.

I don't even feel like explaining myself again on the AFC and how it is NOT better than the Link. I've already done that and because of what 92awddsm said. If you could read you would realize that.

 

[spyderturbo007]

You are truely retarded and have serious problems with reading. My choice with the 550's is because of the AFC not because of the turbo. Sweet jesus, if he was getting his ecu chipped there would be no problem but he didn't say that and I didn't realize he had a 2g as apposed to my 1g which would be even worse off with that setup.

I don't even feel like explaining myself again on the AFC and how it is NOT better than the Link. I've already done that and because of what 92awddsm said. If you could read you would realize that.

I guess I am a retard for telling him that a 16g can outflow 550's relatively easily.

THERE IS NO PROBLEM TUNING 650'S WITH A SAFC!!!

Is there something in that statement that you don't understand. By the way, do you even own a SAFC?

Did I say that a SAFC was better than DSMLink? No! You're the one talking to me about reading comprehension.

You didn't realize that he had a 2g and you are telling everyone here that they can't read. How do you expect to accurately help somone when you have no idea what car you are tuning. Who's the retard now ????

You have posted nothing but insults, misinformation and a bunch of "I think"/"I heard"/"Someone told me" during the course of this thread.

So STFU and sit down.


I'm with 98spydert

Wasting my time with stupid people

EDIT> I also just noticed that your AIM screen name is "imaDummy". How fitting!

How nice of you to give me a bad rep point for calling you out and telling you that you are WRONG. Very mature. I certainly hope that you also reported the post to the Mods. But I'm sure you didn't as you would get bashed for posting a bunch of misinformation/hear say.

Grow up!!!

 

[iwantawd]

THERE IS NO PROBLEM TUNING 650'S WITH A SAFC!!! in a 2g!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You keep saying you CAN do it, well I don't believe you have a 1g you have done this on have you? Oh geez now whos shouting off misinformation and hearsay?

You are correct I managed to overlook his sig pic and I don't usually look at the profile area so if he didn't write it I didn't see it.

All the rest in your post is just babbling bullshit which has pretty much been explained.

And I have grown up, I tried to stop efighting a couple posts ago but you wouldn't have any of it.

 

[iwantawd]

hey maybe you can help me, ive been searching for a lil while now and have yet to find a 1g with over 550's and no chip. why cant i find them?
someone that has it done please jump in here.

 

[spyderturbo007]

You keep saying you CAN do it, well I don't believe you have a 1g you have done this on have you? Oh geez now whos shouting off misinformation and hearsay?

This thread relates to a 2g, not a 1g.

I am done with you.

 

[iwantawd]

Well then you finally realize how big of a mistake I made on that one point and said, "Good point GVR, having a 2g is something I overlooked."

I hope you're not the friend of Matt Johnson's out in Mechburg, for his sake.