Internally gated turbos tested on the Dyno

As I promised, the turbo testing has begun, albeit a week late!

To sum up what is taking place, I will first give you a little information on the exact setup we are running. This set up will remain the same throughout the test, as we are testing turbos with a rating of 300 WHP up to 700 WHP. Because of this, we are forced to run VP 116 throughout the test. We are shooting for AFR's all in the 11.8-12.0 range on EVERY TURBO. We will also be running a conservative 14-16 degrees of timing. If we do however run a turbo on pump gas, we will also share this information with you as well. If you have more questions than what I answered here, please feel free to address them. All turbos will be run with internal gate unless otherwise noted.

All turbos will be run at 15 psi, and 20 psi. The "big" turbos we will run as much boost as possible at the end of the test to report final "dyno queen" numbers!

As well I will put my .02 in where I think its needed, wow, who would have figured that

Block:

2.0L
8:8 Wiseco pistons, 87 mm bore
Manley long rods
Topline oil pump
2.0l crank

Head:

SBR stage V head
Manley Valves
Manley Ti retainers
Manley springs
HKS 272 cams
ARP head studs
Cometic HP head gasket

Engine management:

Haltech E6X

Fuel:

FIC 750's
FIC fuel rail
Aeromotive fuel pump
Aeromotive regulator

Intercooler:

SBR 1G race FMIC
Tial BOV

Intake:

1G throttle body
Magnus intake manifold

Exhaust manifold:

SBR cast manifold (new style with WG hole blocked)

With this being said, I will start a new post for each turbo we test over the next few days and weeks. I will be out of the office for the next few days, so if you do not see frequent updates hold in there for me, I will be back to it asap!

Regards

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

15 PSI:

331.4 WHP
285.1 ft/lbs

20 PSI:

381.4 WHP
354.7 ft/lbs

We did use the low pressure WG actuator that was sent with this turbo. It did show signs of not being able to hold 20 PSI to redline, so boost was actually about 18-19 PSI. We did also run into a little bit of compressor surge when we did try to tighten the WG actuator down to hold more boost. Of course, at 10:1 compression, and only running about 16 degrees of timing, this may have been a culprit as well. However, in trying to keep the testing on a level playing field, we worked within the given parameters.

Our overall impression of this turbo is very good, power delivery was very smooth and predictable. This car was also run on pump gas and only made 10-12 less WHP at both 15 and 20 psi settings.

In our opinion, for someone looking for a smooth, driveable 300 WHP car at only 12-15 psi, this one may be really hard to beat.

To4B V trim dyno graph

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

15 PSI:

345.5 WHP
303.9 ft/lbs

20 PSI:

401.3 WHP
378.6 ft/lbs

The To4B 57 trim performed much better at low boost than we assumed before the test began. We were really surprised as well to see spool up similar to the V trim. At low boost we assumed the V trim would out perform the To4b 57 trim, we were taught a lesson in "assuming" really quick.

Over all pleased with the results, this was another turbo that performed well on pump gas as well, making just a hair under 385 WHP at only 20 PSI.

We turned up the boost once on this guy, at 27 PSI it made 459 WHP at 7000 rpms.

In our opinion another very good turbo for those looking to make 330-350 WHP on pump at a moderate boost level.

Bullseye To4B 57 trim

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

Switched to a 2.0l 8.3:1 Wiseco/ Eagle combo motor!

Getting caught up at the shop, so the car is back on the dyno today!

Bullseye To4b 57 trim.

15 PSI: 245 ft/lbs 290 WHP
20 PSI: 320 ft/lbs 325 WHP
25 PSI: 361 ft/lbs 361 WHP

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/TO4B%2057-trim%2015-20-25psi.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/TO4B%2057-trim%20Boost%20Graph.JPG

We will post lay over on 10:1 motor for comparison later today.

You can also see us fighting with the internal gate as well on the second link.

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

15 PSI: 249 ft/ lbs 302 WHP
20 PSI: 321 ft/ lbs 329 WHP

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/TO4B%20V-trim%20Test%20%232.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/TO4B%20V-trim%20Boost%20Graph%20Test%20%232.JPG

Keep in mind a Dyna-pack is a very sensitive dyno. It will pick up boost spike, etc. very quickly unlike Dynojet, Mustang Dyno, etc.

As well, I got a PM asking the sweep time we are running, it is 11 seconds.

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

Well, it seems every internal WG actuator we test on a DSM all have the same problems. We try to tighten the actuator arm up (to make turbo spool faster by holding flapper shut longer) and the boost spikes. We loosen it up and spool up goes down the drain.

Our dyno is VERY sensetive to subtle changes as I said in our previous email about the Bullseye units. After all testing is done, we feel we may go back and test them with an external on the manifold just to prove our theory is correct.

15 PSI: 280 ft/ lbs 290 WHP
21 PSI: 360 ft/ lbs 364 WHP
27 PSI: 423 ft/ lbs 425 WHP

Now, with that being said our actuator had a higher "boost spike" than any of the two Bullseye units. Once boost leveled out however, they held very well with the exception of a 30 psi spike falling clear off until 21 psi at 8k. We marked on the "manifold pessure" chart where the turbo made peak power on the 21 and 27 PSI run.

We wanted to make a higher boost run, however we will save that for the external WG test!

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/50-trim%2015-20-25psi%20Round%20Two.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/50-trim%20Boost%20Graph%20Round%20Two.JPG

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

We had only linited time today to get the test done, we had a few dyno appointments. We did manage to spend some time with the MHI Evo III turbo however, notice on the 15 PSI graph the boost crept from 15 to 20 psi.... the opposite problem we have been having! This was an unported turbo with no 34 mm flapper to help control boost creep. It was only an issue when we tried to run less than 20 psi however.

15 PSI: 290 ft/lbs 344 WHP (crept to 20 PSI)
20 PSI: 344 ft/lbs 344 WHP
25 PSI: 400 ft/lbs 375 WHP
30 PSI: 436 ft/lbs 397 WHP (fell to 23 PSI at redline)

We can easily make 400 WHP if we wanted to run more timing, or if we were on our old 2.3l motor we liked to beat on back in the day! We will have this turbo back on once we go external as well.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/E16G%2015-20-25-30psi.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/E16G%20Boost%20Graph.JPG

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

The M trim is not a bad turbo, especially when you factor in the actual cost, which we connot discuss here!

We feel with a little more tweaking, and a higher PSI actuator this turbo will perform flawlessly. We will put a stronger actuator on this turbo, but not today, we have more turbos to bolt on and finish testing!

15 PSI: 252 ft/lbs 287 WHP
20 PSI: 330 ft/lbs 310 WHP
25 PSI: 353 ft/lbs 318 WHP

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/TO4B%20M-trim%2015-20-25psi.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/TO4B%20M-trim%20Boost%20Graph.JPG

Two things I notice (if you compare to 57 trim about 3 pages back) is that at 15 PSI it makes 10 more ft/ lbs and only 3 WHP less than the 57 trim. Next, is that obviously with a higher PSI actuator we would have made more power at the 20 and 25 PSI levels, both runs fell to almost 15 psi at redline.

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

Let me start by saying we know this turbo can make a lot more WHP... however Nathan is getting a little frustrated with the weakness of all internal WG turbos making big power. If you tighten the WG arm to much, you get a huge boost spike, if you leave it loose, you get really slow spool and poor performance.

The BEP 50 trim will be one of the few turbos we keep around for the external wg test to proove its real worth. This turbo would EASILY make 400 WHP, and we will be back on it once we get the rest of the turbos done.

15 PSI: 280 ft/ lbs 305 WHP
20 PSI: 340 ft/ lbs 321 WHP
25 PSI: 371 ft/ lbs 342 WHP

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/BET%2050-trim%2015-20-25psi.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/BET%2050-trim%20Boost.JPG

Mike Huml

PS.... this motor now has 382 dyno pulls on it, not including any steady state tuning.

 

[Slowboy]

We have no real idea what this turbo is, but it was on the shelf of turbos that we have been testing. To the best of our knowledge, its an M trim compresso wheel with a small stage III turbine wheel. Spool up seems quick, power is not really there, only ran 15 and 20 psi runs.

15 PSI: 286 ft/ lbs 260 WHP
20 PSI: 343 ft/ lbs 288 WHP

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/BEP%20Unknown%2015-20psi.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/BEP%20Unknown%20Boost.JPG

The big turbine wheels mated with the M and N trim seem to work better, even though spool up is slower the power is more consistent. This is not one we would sell, even if it was, what would we call it?

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

We know this turbo can make some power, we also know like all the internal gate turbos we need to be able to hold more boost in the upper RPM's to pull the big WHP #'s off, so this one we will keep around and run at 30 PSI on the external gate as well in the next few weeks.

The turbo has the stock flapper, so notice it crept from 15 to 20 PSI on the 15 PSI run, so obviously the #'s are a little off for the 15 PSI run, but here are the numbers!

15 PSI: 298 ft/ lbs 352 WHP
20 PSI: 350 ft/ lbs 387 WHP
30 PSI: 459 ft/ lbs 422 WHP (30 PSI falling to 23 at redline)

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/Bastard%2020g%2015-20-30.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/Bastard%2020g%20Boost.JPG

We are well over 430 dyno runs on the motor, we will get back to this more next week.. I know we have an HX40 coming up that should test the Eagle rods in this motor, and we will try to dig up a few 55-65 lb/ min turbos to throw into the mix. We will do our best to get 2-3 more turbos tested next week. As well, we are going to go back to the MHI EVO III 16G and test it with our tubular header, and post the results back on the MHI EVO III post.

After this is done, we are going to test a handfull of turbos with an external gate set up.

Mike Huml

 

[Slowboy]

We had only linited time today to get the test done, we had a few dyno appointments. We did manage to spend some time with the MHI Evo III turbo however, notice on the 15 PSI graph the boost crept from 15 to 20 psi.... the opposite problem we have been having! This was an unported turbo with no 34 mm flapper to help control boost creep. It was only an issue when we tried to run less than 20 psi however.

15 PSI: 290 ft/lbs 344 WHP (crept to 20 PSI)
20 PSI: 344 ft/lbs 344 WHP
25 PSI: 400 ft/lbs 375 WHP
30 PSI: 436 ft/lbs 397 WHP (fell to 23 PSI at redline)

We can easily make 400 WHP if we wanted to run more timing, or if we were on our old 2.3l motor we liked to beat on back in the day! We will have this turbo back on once we go external as well.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/E16G%2015-20-25-30psi.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/E16G%20Boost%20Graph.JPG

Mike Huml

So, lately we have seen a lot of post on Tuners and other forums about tubular manifolds, so we decided to do a little testing of our own! It is a well accepted theory that a properly designed tubular exhaust manifold will pick up torque, and possibly make a few more WHP along the way.

So, we decided to install the SBR tubular manifold, and give it the SBR port job that this turbo deserved in the beginning.

Here is the note that was in my email from Nathan, (our tuner) so you can easily understand the graphs I am about to post:

"The third graph posted is a screen capture from the Haltech datalogger. It shows MAP pressure vs. intake temp. Much to our suprise, even at this boost pressure, the 16G didn't turn into a hairdryer. As you can see at the beginning of the run IAT is at a cool 20*C, about 68*F. As boost comes on, IAT rises to a peak of 27*, or 80.6*F. This is VERY good for an IAT, especially for a small turbo. Its not uncommon to see 140* temps on big boost passes on a small intercooler.

The IAT sensor is positioned right infront of the throttle body in the TB elbow.
Unfortunetly, we dont have an IAT before the IC for a temperature differential, but the hot side endtank is blazing after each pass, almost burns you to touch it, however the outlet cold side stays right around 80*. Pretty efficient setup eh?

Nate
SBR"

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G%20Tubular.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G%20Tubular%20vs.%20Cast.JPG

http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno%20graphs/Evo-III-16G/Air%20Temp%20vs%20MAP.jpg

Maybe we should start a new thread to discuss this? Who wants us to throw some nitrous on this little MHI and see what its made of.... hehe....

Mike Huml