Installing HKS 272's, need opinions

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Ok well I'm installing HKS 272's in my 98 GSX and I've heard from a lot of people I don't need the timing belt tensioner when I install the cams and I just wanted to know other peoples opinions on this. I was also wondering if anyone has any better write ups than the RRE or Vfaq install, I know it should be straight forward but I really do not want to #### anything up in the process.

 

[turboglenn]

By timing belt tenstioner do you mean the piece that is currently on your engine? Becuase you will always need that part. Or were you talking about the tensioner tool that takes the tension off when you screw it into the hole from the side of the front motor mount area? because you don't "need" the tool, but you will need to do everything you would do during a normal timing belt installation.

People have found ways to do it where supposedly you didn't have to do as much of the work, but personally i'd rather do it the way i know and be assured that it's correct. I've heard of people not even taking the tension off the belt and some how swapping the cam out but never seen it in person and wouldn't chance it because if something slips that way you need to do the whole timing belt process anyway, so ya might as well change the T-belt and water pump while you've got the front of the engine apart and know that you'll be good for another 60k miles or untill the water pump fails. personally for 35 bucks for the pump and the price of the belt i change them whenever i have to get into that area and take one or the other off anyway just because i'm there....

Now if you're talking about replacing the timing belt tensioner, some say replace it just as often, but that's one piece that if it's in good shape and no older than around 30-40k miles i'll just re-use the tensioner again ( i'm not made of money but the pump and belt are both cheap enough to do while in there) the tensioner can be had at extreme right now for 50 bucks on special (for a 89 - 91 style) but to buy locally which is what iusually have to do because i'm in there to fix a problem and didn't order everything ahead of time then they hit me for like 120 bucks a tensioner so i get my use out of them

I hope my ramblings have answered your questions.. I would advise looking for a set of cam gears ( I got some used Fidanza's for 100 bucks when i did my last build) as tuning the cam gears will make a notable difference, not to mention they are used to degree your cams in. But i hear the HKS's can be installed "straight up" and are just fine, but for regrinds and such a true degreeing is always recomended

Now, although i didn't "degree" mine in, i did adjust my exhaust cam to add a little top end and it was well noticed in the butt dyno, although not considered compoletely safe to "blindly" degee the cams i did have a bore scope to look with while rotating the engine by hand with no plugs in it to make myself feel safe

here's a great article on degfreeing in cams, and actually shows that on their build the HKS sheet would have had them out off spec and in a danger zone

4G63 Camshaft Degreeing

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

So pretty much I need to order the timing belt tensioner tool then or my life is gonna be hell.. Dang, I thought this would have been a little more straight forward than this.

 

[turboglenn]

Nah, you dont need that tool, all you need is a vice or a bice C-clamp... I just pull the tensioner off, then take and use a vice or clamp and use it to compress the tensioner back into place and stick a small allen wrench in the hole to hold it in place untill you get everything lined up and are ready to release it again.

Just remember to not use force when compressing the tensioner, go maybe an 1/8th turn at a time when compressing it, as soon as you feel resistance just wait a minute and you'll get another either turn with no resistance again and a few minutes later you'll have it compressed.. if you just crank it down you'll ruin it like a guy did for me when he was "helping" me with a blown head gasket when i went to sioux city a few months ago

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Isn't that kinda risky? Lol

 

[black_gst]

best $50 i ever spent
Jay Racing Timing Belt Tools Kit [TBTS] - $50.00 : Jay Racing
i swapped my friends cams with these tools in about 2 hour while we were drinking beers and BSing

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

I don't even know how to use the other tools hahaha
You should take a trip up north and help a brother out! Lol

 

[crash89]

Ive never used that tool and Ive done the timing on my car a few times as well as my friends DSMs. Never had a problem. All I used was a pair of vice grips and an allen wrench. You may need a friend to help you though, I find it pretty hard to keep the belt and tighten the bolt on that little pully deal without letting it slack.

 

[Strm Trpr]

best $50 i ever spent
Jay Racing Timing Belt Tools Kit [TBTS] - $50.00 : Jay Racing
i swapped my friends cams with these tools in about 2 hour while we were drinking beers and BSing

^^^ Exactly.
Didn't swap cams, but I helped a friend replace his 95 CAS which requires removing the intake cam gear completely out of the way without removing and redoing the t-belt and we drank some beerz too... 12'er and two hours later his car with idling in his driveway.

It's real easy if you don't have t-belt covers.

I don't even know how to use the other tools hahaha
You should take a trip up north and help a brother out! Lol

^^^ This statement leads me to believe you've never done a t-belt job on a dsm.
I would not attempt to swap cams without someone knowledgeable in the dsm t-belt ways.
If you've got the scratch, take a trip in-land to Santa Fe Springs and have RRE do the swap for you, or find a local willing to help you out.

 

[black_gst]

those tools make a t-belt job 2x as easy that little plastic thing goes between the cam gears once you align them to TDC.

let me tell you how they work if you wanted to change you cams.

1 rotate motor to tdc with T belt on
2 place the plastic thing between cam gears
3 use 2 zip ties on each cam gear to hold the belt to the gears
4 one more zip tie to hold both gears to each other the the plastic thing from jayracing in the middle
5 use the long bolt to depress the tensioner arm which will make the T-belt lose
6 unbolt the cam gears
7 swap out cams with new seals
8 bolt gears back to cams
9 remove long bolt that made the belt loose
10 cut zip ties
11 remove plastic thing between gears
12 rotate motor by hand and verify that timing is correct

start her up

you dont even need to remove and belts or drive motor mout to do it this way

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

those tools make a t-belt job 2x as easy that little plastic thing goes between the cam gears once you align them to TDC.

let me tell you how they work if you wanted to change you cams.

1 rotate motor to tdc with T belt on
2 place the plastic thing between cam gears
3 use 2 zip ties on each cam gear to hold the belt to the gears
4 one more zip tie to hold both gears to each other the the plastic thing from jayracing in the middle
5 use the long bolt to depress the tensioner arm which will make the T-belt lose
6 unbolt the cam gears
7 swap out cams with new seals
8 bolt gears back to cams
9 remove long bolt that made the belt loose
10 cut zip ties
11 remove plastic thing between gears
12 rotate motor by hand and verify that timing is correct

start her up

you dont even need to remove and belts or drive motor mout to do it this way

Ya see you just broke it down and made it simple, now I know exactly how to do it. And I did the timing belt on my 1G and eliminated the balance shafts when I had the head rebuilt and put in a new headgasket.

 

[SBR Joe]

I always just compress the tensioner slowly in a vice and reinstall one of the hundreds of grenade pins i saved from brand new tensioners when i bought them. Its cheaper than buying a tool and only takes a littler longer (as long as it takes to take the two bolts out that hold it in ).

 

[SBR Joe]

those tools make a t-belt job 2x as easy that little plastic thing goes between the cam gears once you align them to TDC.

let me tell you how they work if you wanted to change you cams.

1 rotate motor to tdc with T belt on
2 place the plastic thing between cam gears
3 use 2 zip ties on each cam gear to hold the belt to the gears
4 one more zip tie to hold both gears to each other the the plastic thing from jayracing in the middle
5 use the long bolt to depress the tensioner arm which will make the T-belt lose
6 unbolt the cam gears
7 swap out cams with new seals
8 bolt gears back to cams
9 remove long bolt that made the belt loose
10 cut zip ties
11 remove plastic thing between gears
12 rotate motor by hand and verify that timing is correct

start her up

you dont even need to remove and belts or drive motor mout to do it this way

BANG, this works too, i just always have a PITA time getting the dowel pins on the cams to line up in the gears. Ive done it so many times though it takes just as long tearing the whole shabang down and doing it that way.

 

[black_gst]

BANG, this works too, i just always have a PITA time getting the dowel pins on the cams to line up in the gears. Ive done it so many times though it takes just as long tearing the whole shabang down and doing it that way.

ALL YOU NEED IS A CRESENT WRENCH AND GRAB THE CAM @ THE SPOT THE LOOKS LIKE YOU CAN PUT A WRENCH ON IT AND ROTATE IT TILL IT LINES UP WITH THE HOLE IN THE CAM

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

I have one of these and the tools to make that, will it work?
Timing Tool

 

[Guzman08]

u can rent one at advance auto parts or autozone

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

u can rent one at advance auto parts or autozone

STFU! Really?!

Called Autozone, they don't have them and Advanced Auto is closed already. I'll have to try them in the morning.

 

[Guzman08]

yeah well the advance down here rents tools out. well lends. deposit required

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

Ended up making my own timing belt tensioner tool, turned out very nice IMO.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Ignore the washer on there

 

[crash89]

I know this is an old thread but I do have one question, how long does this "bolt" have to be for it to work as a tensioner tool? It seems kind of ridiculous to me that some of you pay 50$ for a bolt that you probly have laying around the garage... From the looks of the pic above, it seems the threads are maybe 5 or 6 inches??

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

I know this is an old thread but I do have one question, how long does this "bolt" have to be for it to work as a tensioner tool? It seems kind of ridiculous to me that some of you pay 50$ for a bolt that you probly have laying around the garage... From the looks of the pic above, it seems the threads are maybe 5 or 6 inches??

I had a extra battery tie-down bolt laying around and used a dye and threaded it and used it for my tensioner, worked perfectly. My friend is using it right now to do his timing belt on his 90 GSX and its working fine still.

 

[crash89]

I had a extra battery tie-down bolt laying around and used a dye and threaded it and used it for my tensioner, worked perfectly. My friend is using it right now to do his timing belt on his 90 GSX and its working fine still.

I saw that you had said that earlier in this thread however, Im wondering how long (minimum length) the bolt has to be to work? Of your battery tie down bolt, how much is sticking out of the block after its all the way compressed the tensioner?

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

It was about 8-9" I'm pretty sure.

 

[mysticj]

those tools make a t-belt job 2x as easy that little plastic thing goes between the cam gears once you align them to TDC.

let me tell you how they work if you wanted to change you cams.

1 rotate motor to tdc with T belt on
2 place the plastic thing between cam gears
3 use 2 zip ties on each cam gear to hold the belt to the gears
4 one more zip tie to hold both gears to each other the the plastic thing from jayracing in the middle
5 use the long bolt to depress the tensioner arm which will make the T-belt lose
6 unbolt the cam gears
7 swap out cams with new seals
8 bolt gears back to cams
9 remove long bolt that made the belt loose
10 cut zip ties
11 remove plastic thing between gears
12 rotate motor by hand and verify that timing is correct

start her up

you dont even need to remove and belts or drive motor mout to do it this way

given that the timing belt is still good.

 

[dsmdeliveryboy]

given that the timing belt is still good.

Thank you for that small piece of advice......