Initial S-AFC settings for High/Low- 2g

[kmoore]

Here is a log at 18psi and a -28 correction factor across the HI settings. I am still disapointed with my Airflow rate and I am also a little concerned with new WBO2 reading which seems a little off. Here's the log:

Time..........RPM.......Timing......Airflow......O2 2 Bank 1
0.41......... 2276.0...... 24.0......... 3.4........... 1.28
0.8........... 2368.0...... 24.0......... 3.69......... 1.28
1.2........... 2468.0...... 26.0......... 4.04......... 1.28
1.6........... 2596.0...... 26.0......... 4.58......... 1.28
1.99......... 2728.0...... 23.0......... 5.22......... 1.28
2.38..........2876.0..... 22.0......... 5.9........... 1.28
2.8........... 3032.0...... 20.0......... 7.0........... 1.28
3.2........... 3208.0...... 16.0......... 8.37......... 1.28
3.6........... 3424.0...... 10.0......... 10.63....... 1.28
4.0........... 3644.0...... 8.0........... 13.56....... 1.28
4.4........... 3892.0...... 9.0........... 14.09....... 1.28
4.79......... 4120.0...... 9.0........... 14.97....... 1.28
5.19......... 4380.0...... 10.0......... 15.96....... 1.28
5.6........... 4604.0...... 10.0......... 17.06....... 1.28
5.99......... 4804.0...... 10.0......... 17.88....... 1.28
6.38......... 5036.0...... 11.0......... 18.52....... 1.28
6.79......... 5260.0...... 11.0......... 19.7......... 1.28
7.18......... 5476.0...... 13.0......... 19.9......... 1.28
7.59......... 5680.0...... 15.0......... 20.16....... 1.28
7.98......... 5888.0...... 16.0......... 20.47....... 1.28
8.38......... 6084.0...... 17.0......... 20.62....... 1.28
8.79......... 6272.0...... 19.0......... 21.25....... 1.28
9.19......... 6464.0...... 19.0......... 21.74....... 1.28
9.86......... 6724.0...... 20.0......... 21.86....... 1.28

Timing looks alright to me. But I'll let you guys be the judge. And with the corrected WBO2 reading (according to the formula) I would have a AFR of 12.56. BUT, during the log I kept my eye on the gauge and it was reading 10.6 the whole time. Now which one is accurate?

And do you think it would benefit me any if I turned the boost up? Like I said I am a little dissapointed with the Airflow rate when I see that I'm only pushing 21.88. Maybe it's normal.... I don't know, it just seems a little low that's all.

Any advice?

 

[2gGSX]

I did a quick log today. I know the parameters are a little screwed up. Here you go:


Time...Coolant Temp....RPM......Timing.....Air Temp.....Airflow
0.51......... 172.0....... 2816.0...... 34.0......... 55.0......... 4.44
0.99......... 172.0....... 2892.0...... 26.0......... 55.0......... 6.39
1.48......... 172.0....... 3032.0...... 20.0......... 54.0......... 8.57
2.25......... 172.0....... 3248.0...... 10.0......... 54.0......... 11.72
2.75......... 172.0....... 3644.0...... 12.0......... 54.0......... 12.37
3.24......... 174.0....... 3908.0...... 13.0......... 54.0......... 13.48
3.74......... 174.0....... 4184.0...... 14.0......... 55.0......... 15.08
4.23......... 174.0....... 4468.0...... 15.0......... 55.0......... 16.44
4.73......... 174.0....... 4732.0...... 15.0......... 55.0......... 18.04
5.22......... 174.0....... 5016.0...... 15.0......... 55.0......... 19.59
5.72......... 174.0....... 5272.0...... 16.0......... 55.0......... 20.99
6.21......... 174.0....... 5532.0...... 17.0......... 57.0......... 21.69
6.71......... 174.0....... 5772.0...... 19.0......... 57.0......... 22.22
7.2........... 174.0....... 6016.0...... 21.0......... 57.0......... 22.88
7.7........... 174.0....... 6264.0...... 21.0......... 59.0......... 23.21
8.46......... 176.0....... 6508.0...... 22.0......... 59.0......... 22.92
8.96......... 176.0....... 6796.0...... 23.0......... 61.0......... 22.94


To me this log doesn't look too bad. But then again this was only at 10psi. I'll let you guys be the judge.
I will try and do another log (if you guys think this one is alright) with some more boost. Felt pretty solid at only 10psi though .

You later said that was at -22%. Therefore, you gained a grand total of 0.96 lbs/min and went from 10 psi to 18 psi.

Something physical is limiting your airflow to 30 lbs/min. Check to see that your throttle plate is opening all the way, base timing is 5* BTDC, and anything else you can think of. Get a compression test as well for the hell of it.

 

[kmoore]

Maybe outside temperature had something to do with it. I don't know. When I did this log it was like 75* and the previous logs were done at a considerably lower temperature.


Like you said, Tom, there is definately something wrong.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Timing looks alright to me. But I'll let you guys be the judge. And with the corrected WBO2 reading (according to the formula) I would have a AFR of 12.56. BUT, during the log I kept my eye on the gauge and it was reading 10.6 the whole time. Now which one is accurate?

There is something funny going on there, but I'll see if I can look into the problem a little further. I know there is a screw on the back of the UEGO that allows you to change the display, but I don't remember if it has an effect on the 0 - 5v output. Can you move the screw to the position that displays Lambda on the gauge and see if it correlates to your rear O2 sensor reading?

Like I said I am a little dissapointed with the Airflow rate when I see that I'm only pushing 21.88. Maybe it's normal.... I don't know, it just seems a little low that's all.

Any advice?

Just to clairify, you are pushing more than 21.88lbs/min. You have to remember that your logger is displaying airflow after it's molested by the SAFC. So you have to take into account the correction factors applied at each Ne Point.

Based on your -28% correction factor, you're actually pushing 30.39lbs/min. But as Tom said, it looks like there is something causing a restriction.

EDIT -> I'll try and remember to look tonight when I get home, but I think I'm pushing about 33lbs/min at 20psi, so your airflow might be just a little low.

 

[kmoore]

There is something funny going on there, but I'll see if I can look into the problem a little further. I know there is a screw on the back of the UEGO that allows you to change the display, but I don't remember if it has an effect on the 0 - 5v output. Can you move the screw to the position that displays Lambda on the gauge and see if it correlates to your rear O2 sensor reading?



Just to clairify, you are pushing more than 21.88lbs/min. You have to remember that your logger is displaying airflow after it's molested by the SAFC. So you have to take into account the correction factors applied at each Ne Point.

Based on your -28% correction factor, you're actually pushing 30.39lbs/min. But as Tom said, it looks like there is something causing a restriction.

I'll look into that screw adjustment. Your saying adjust it according to the Rear O2 sensor reading?

I still don't know which one is accurate....

And I now understand the whole corretion factors, but shouldn't I still be pushing close to 35lbs/min uncorrected? What do you think is holding me back?

 

[spyderturbo007]

I'll look into that screw adjustment. Your saying adjust it according to the Rear O2 sensor reading?

I know there are 4 different settings available, but I'll have to look at the manual to see the differences. One setting displays Lambda, another displays AFR, but I'm not sure about the other two. I'll see if I can find the manual online and let you know.

And I now understand the whole corretion factors, but shouldn't I still be pushing close to 35lbs/min uncorrected? What do you think is holding me back?

35lbs/min uncorrected with an SAFC correction factor of -28% would be 48.61lbs/min corrected. I'm sorry, but there is no way you're ever going to push that much air with that turbo. Are you sure you didn't mean 35lbs/min corrected?

Where did you come up with the 35lb/min target?

 

[kmoore]

I apologize I meant corrected. That's not too unreasonable is it?

 

[2gGSX]

I was talking to Kyle last night and mentioned my old Evo 3 setup was flowing 35 lbs/min at the same 18 psi he's pushing now.

 

[kmoore]

Post #9 by Turboglenn:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...6-5-volt-wideband-input-rear-02-pin-75-a.html

Is this right? Is this what you were talking about Nathan? No matter what setting you set the AEM wideband to, it will still read the same, it will just correspond to the Rear O2 sensor so I can log it accurately?

 

[CanadianTSi]

That last log you posted the timing looks perfect. I wouldn't worry to much about the airflow numbers, take it to the track and see what it traps

 

[kmoore]

That last log you posted the timing looks perfect. I wouldn't worry to much about the airflow numbers, take it to the track and see what it traps

Really? You were running the EvoIII weren't you? What lbs/min were you running?

I'll take it to the track and see what happens...

 

[CanadianTSi]

Too many years ago so I can't remember exactly but i think somewhere around 30...trapped 110mph on 20psi and pump in my full weight awd.

 

[kmoore]

So is this something that I should be REALLY concerned about? Can anyone else elaborate on this?

 

[spyderturbo007]

So is this something that I should be REALLY concerned about? Can anyone else elaborate on this?

Are you asking about the airflow numbers? If so, then no, you have nothing to worry about. All three of us, at one time, were running very similar mods and almost the same boost pressure and netting the same airflow. It's normal for that turbo at that pressure.

 

[kmoore]

Are you asking about the airflow numbers? If so, then no, you have nothing to worry about. All three of us, at one time, were running very similar mods and almost the same boost pressure and netting the same airflow. It's normal for that turbo at that pressure.

Yes, I'm talking about the airflow numbers. Would it help at all to up the boost? Seeing that my timing is good and my AFR's are good?

Any update on that WB reading through the 2nd O2 sensor?

 

[2gGSX]

Are you asking about the airflow numbers? If so, then no, you have nothing to worry about. All three of us, at one time, were running very similar mods and almost the same boost pressure and netting the same airflow. It's normal for that turbo at that pressure.

Tyler's 110 trap speed was probably not from a low 30 lb/min airflow number. You stated that you are seeing around 33 lbs/min, and I know I was at 35 with my old setup. His airflow really does seem lacking IMO.

More importantly though is the fact that he gained 1 lb/min when he went from 10 psi to 18 psi--something is definitely not right with that.

 

[kmoore]

More importantly though is the fact that he gained 1 lb/min when he went from 10 psi to 18 psi--something is definitely not right with that.

And thats kind of what I'm concerned about too. That's why I'm wondering if I do bump up the boost to 20psi, it may not help all that much...

 

[spyderturbo007]

Tyler's 110 trap speed was probably not from a low 30 lb/min airflow number. You stated that you are seeing around 33 lbs/min, and I know I was at 35 with my old setup. His airflow really does seem lacking IMO.

Yep, that 33lbs/min was when I was running about 20psi, so with him running 18psi, 30lbs/min should be about right.

More importantly though is the fact that he gained 1 lb/min when he went from 10 psi to 18 psi--something is definitely not right with that.

Didn't see that part, but I'll go through the logs again. Something doesn't sound right on that one, since 30lbs/min on the 16g @ 10psi would be crazy.

 

[kmoore]

Update:

So Tom and I tried to diagnose my lbs/min issue with his DSMlink setup. And what we basically found was that at that 10psi pull, it was actually creeping to about 15psi. So, I was not really pushing 30 lbs/min at 10 psi it was actually 15psi which is a little more normal supposedly. We did about 3 or so pulls and logged them all on DSMlink. I'll let Tom upload those (If you don't mind) for all you DSMlink guru's.

Anyway, since everything checked out ok (for the most part) I decided to bump up the boost to 20psi w/ a -31 correction factor across the HI settings. Here is that log:

TIME..........RPM.......Timing.......Airflow....02 2Bank1= AFR
0.41......... 2208.0...... 23.0......... 3.23......... 1.28====12.56
0.8........... 2296.0...... 27.0......... 3.37......... 1.28
1.2........... 2388.0...... 27.0......... 3.63......... 1.28
1.6........... 2484.0...... 26.0......... 4.03......... 1.28
2.0........... 2600.0...... 26.0......... 4.55......... 1.28
2.4........... 2736.0...... 24.0......... 5.19......... 1.28
2.8........... 2888.0...... 22.0......... 6.03......... 1.28
3.19......... 3048.0...... 18.0......... 7.22......... 1.28
3.59......... 3256.0...... 14.0......... 8.77......... 1.28
3.99......... 3464.0...... 9.0........... 11.69....... 1.28
4.39......... 3692.0...... 5.0........... 15.45....... 1.24====12.48
4.79......... 4028.0...... 7.0........... 16.12....... 1.22====12.44
5.46......... 4432.0...... 9.0........... 17.64....... 1.22
5.86......... 4728.0...... 9.0........... 18.99....... 1.2 ====12.4
6.26......... 5000.0...... 9.0........... 19.98....... 1.08====12.16
6.66......... 5252.0...... 10.0......... 21.46....... 1.06====12.12
7.05......... 5500.0...... 12.0......... 22.09....... 1.18====12.36
7.45......... 5764.0...... 14.0......... 22.23....... 1.12====12.24
7.84......... 5960.0...... 14.0......... 22.5......... 1.06====12.12
9.06......... 6608.0...... 14.0......... 23.34....... 1.02====12.04
9.46......... 6760.0...... 15.0......... 23.59....... 0.98====11.96

Now, I am still concerned about this WBO2 reading coming from the 2nd O2 sensor. Today we double checked the location (pin#) and everything checked out.

During this pull, the wide band read about 11.5 and then at the end read 11.1 THE WHOLE PULL. So something is wrong with the calculation.

Looks like I got about 24lbs/min though at 20psi. By the way, can someone post the formula to figure out your ACTUAL lbs/min corrected? Thanks guys.

 

[2gGSX]

23.59/(1-.31) = 34.18 lbs/min, that sounds right on target then.

As for the wideband, it was not reading anything via DSMLink yet it was in the correct pin with the correct 0-5V output and correctly secured--meaning I have no idea why there is no output.

Cross-referencing the "ideal timing" based on airflow/rev versus the timing seen in the previous graph, it would seem like there is knock at 3500 RPM and on. Based on logging today however, I highly doubt this is the case as there was literally next to nothing being read by the actual knock sensor itself (read via DSMLink).

 

[kmoore]

And yes, everyone can make fun of my front O2 sensor taking a shit half way through those pulls

 

[kmoore]

I have been doing some more research on this WBO2 reading... and I still can't figure out why the rear O2 reading is not corresponding with the gauge? Nathan do you have any input on this?

 

[tristanmb81]

any updates?

 

[Sublime_06]

Did you guys ever resolve the WBo2 readings? Was the calculation wrong? Or something else?

Thanks,
Chris.

 

[spyderturbo007]

The calculation is correct, but I'm still unable to find the cause of the problem. If you take a look at the UEGO's manual, they show you the predefined correlation between Lambda and AFR and everything checks. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe there is something we are missing with the pin tapped at the ECU. Perhaps it's altering the voltage? Maybe Steve can shed some light on that aspect.