ignition coil failure

[Meerschaut]

hi,

i have a litle question about my ignition coil

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when i trying to start my engine only one coil gives a spark. i went to my mitsubishi dealer and bought a new ignition coil, i installed it on my engine, tryed to start and only the same coil gives a spark (the other coil doesn't do anyting) now my question is what could be the problem i checked everything and i cant find an answer.

thx and happy 2009

mvg Nick

 

[silviacon]

Did you check your ignitor? Or maybe a cam angle sensor...

 

[hobbystocker]

no idea ... good luck on getting fixed... did u buy an aftermarket one or a stock one?

 

[Meerschaut]

hi

the cam angle sensor is not broke (how can i test him) i bought it at my mitsubishi dealer it was still in his original packing material, (does someone got an electric wiring diagram of the camshaft positioning sensor)

 

[Bubbs Malone]

I'm guessing you already checked the spark plugs. When my coil went out I had spark in two cylinders and it ran really bad. It threw Cel Numbers for misfire and bad coil, sorry I can't be more help.

 

[Demon33]

I had a similar problem not too long ago with my '90 AWD. To troubleshoot, I swapped the electrical connectors at the back of my coil pack essentially swapping the coils. Using a spark tester and with the coils connected to the car's electrical connector, I verified the supposedly bad coil was in fact good. This helped eliminate the coil pack as a possible root cause. This led me to investigate further afterwhich, I discovered the electrical connector at the power transistor was loose.

You've already swapped out coils for a new set so I would next look to eliminate the power transistor as a possible cause to your problem.

Some might say that your CAS (or crank sensor) could be going bad and that's certainly possible, but everything I've read suggests that when the CAS goes bad all spark and/or fuel injector pulsing goes out as well.

 

[Meerschaut]

hi,

is it also possible that it is about my camshaft sensor, because i mayby have connected the sensor wrong thats also the reason i'm searching a electrical wiring diagam where i can see the cables running from the sensor to the other end for example the ecu or something else

grtz Nick

 

[Demon33]

hi,

is it also possible that it is about my camshaft sensor, because i mayby have connected the sensor wrong thats also the reason i'm searching a electrical wiring diagam where i can see the cables running from the sensor to the other end for example the ecu or something else

grtz Nick

I was under the impression that the problem popped up suddenly. I was not aware that you removed the CAS. I'm no expert on the exact workings of the CAS, but I do know that it's used in the fuel delivery(ie. injector pulsing) as well as the ignition timing. So yes, it is possible that it could have a negative affect. In what way, that I'm not certain. There is afterall an alignment procedure for the CAS in relation to the cam position. You'll have to look up the procedure, as I don't know it off hand.

 

[EVILAWD100]

not to jack your thread but i have a similar problem. i wet my engine bay, as you can imagine the car didnt start until the next morning since it had to dry. well i drove it home and guess what now it wont start at all. could it also be the coil pack?

 

[Bubbs Malone]

My experience started after I washed my engine bay as well. Since I only lost one Coil, it ran real rough when first starting. When I messed with the car for a bit, it would warm up and run fine. I was throwing CEL #'s for Misfire and Bad Coil by the next morning, all was back to normal after replacing the coil pack. I'm sure there are other possible causes, but sounds a lot like my experience EVILAWD100

 

[eeeewidner]

Try this. I had an Talon towed into my shop for the same exact symptom and this is how I tested the ignition system.

1. Perform a "tap test" of the power transistor. Cut the Brown/Red wire in terminal number two of the connector for the power transistor. Cut the Black/Blue wire at terminal 7 of the power transistor. Using a test light hooked to battery positive, apply this voltage through the test light to the cut wire(s) going towards the power transistor, with the key in the "on" position. One spark should be produced as the test light is touched and released to the power transistor. If one sparks and the other does not then replace the power transistor.

2. Scope check the crank and cam signals and compare to a normal pattern.

If this helps any of you quys out, give up those rep points.

 

[EVILAWD100]

so let me ask you guys best way of being able to tell if the coil pack is working would be to connect a spark plug to the spark plug wires and see if it'll create a spark while i turn the key over?

 

[Demon33]

so let me ask you guys best way of being able to tell if the coil pack is working would be to connect a spark plug to the spark plug wires and see if it'll create a spark while i turn the key over?

This will only tell you if the entire ignition system (power transistor, coils, wires, plugs, CAS, etc.) is working properly. You need to isolate the coil and test it separately from the other ignition components.

With the test you mentioned, any number of problems can cause a 'no spark' to occur- bad power transistor, bad coils, bad wires, bad plugs, bad CAS, etc. If you don't know for certain that all the components of the ignition system are working 100%, you cannot test the coils in this manner. Otherwise, yes you can do it this way.

There is a procedure and specifications for testing the coils with a mutimeter. Basically, you have to remove the coils and probe the electrical connectors at the primary and secondary windings of the coils to verify that their resistance is within spec. The service manual details the test procedure.

 

[Meerschaut]

hi,

i will thank everybody for their help you all gived me but i didn't have found the problem so i called my mitsubishi dealer and they have taken them to their garage if i know what the problem was i will tel it so mayby others can solve their problem (if they have the same problem as me)

thx

grtz Nick

 

[EVILAWD100]

This will only tell you if the entire ignition system (power transistor, coils, wires, plugs, CAS, etc.) is working properly. You need to isolate the coil and test it separately from the other ignition components.

With the test you mentioned, any number of problems can cause a 'no spark' to occur- bad power transistor, bad coils, bad wires, bad plugs, bad CAS, etc. If you don't know for certain that all the components of the ignition system are working 100%, you cannot test the coils in this manner. Otherwise, yes you can do it this way.

There is a procedure and specifications for testing the coils with a mutimeter. Basically, you have to remove the coils and probe the electrical connectors at the primary and secondary windings of the coils to verify that their resistance is within spec. The service manual details the test procedure.

I appreciate the insight. do you by any chance have a diagram that shows which wires in paticular. i searched on here but a little unsucessful. newb!

 

[dgdsm]

It's likely to be different for different vehicles, but here's a general circuit diagram from an old manual for 1g dsms. I believe the resistance specs are in the Haynes manual.

 

[Bubbs Malone]

If you have a Chilton manual, they have instructions in there as well.

 

[EVILAWD100]

well to give you guys an update i replaced the coolant temp sensor and new spark plugs since they were way soaked in fuel.

starts to turn over a little faster but still no luck. i did however disconnect the spark plug and connected it to the spark plug wire. i had a buddy on a close look out and even with the new spark plug piston/spark plug number 1 only sparked 2 times total. i didnt bother checking the rest but now i wonder if the coil pack is actually whats wrong.

keep in mind my car was working perfectly fine and after i washed the engine bay it began to run a little rough not allowing me to rev past 3k rpms, until of course the car no longer turns on. i havent ran a compression test although not sure why i would have to when i was washing the engine bay. im going to see if i can come up on a coil pack and see if thats the answer

 

[Bubbs Malone]

Maybe you can borrow one just to test it out, I hope that's the problem.

 

[EVILAWD100]

hey guys i have an update. so i found a local guy here in my area. asked him for the coilpack and CAS. i was almost 100% sure it was the coilpack because i was getting maybe 2 sparks per cylinder and i was under the impression that was the culprit. So changed the coilpack and guess what...same result. changed the CAS and guess what it works. Car turned over without much of a problem. moved it around until it begins to idle somewhat normal. only problem now is their seems to be a leak somewhere. id run a boost leak test but dont have a compressor to check it out. because nothing else was changed but the CAS and coilpack it might just be the throttle body gasket. i didnt feel any air coming out through there, any suggestions

 

[Demon33]

hey guys i have an update. so i found a local guy here in my area. asked him for the coilpack and CAS. i was almost 100% sure it was the coilpack because i was getting maybe 2 sparks per cylinder and i was under the impression that was the culprit. So changed the coilpack and guess what...same result. changed the CAS and guess what it works. Car turned over without much of a problem. moved it around until it begins to idle somewhat normal. only problem now is their seems to be a leak somewhere. id run a boost leak test but dont have a compressor to check it out. because nothing else was changed but the CAS and coilpack it might just be the throttle body gasket. i didnt feel any air coming out through there, any suggestions

Glad to hear you found the problem. So, the lesson I take away from this thread is- Don't spray water on your engine without first taking the necessary precautions to protect the vital electrical components such as the CAS. I'll add the power transistor, coil and spark plug wells to the list. Can anyone add to the list of parts or areas that should be protected from water during an engine cleaning?

only problem now is their seems to be a leak somewhere. id run a boost leak test but dont have a compressor to check it out. because nothing else was changed but the CAS and coilpack it might just be the throttle body gasket. i didnt feel any air coming out through there, any suggestions

During idle when the intake track has vacuum, you won't feel any air coming OUT anywhere. The best you could do is to listen for the air being SUCKED into the intake path (ie. vacuum leak) at the point of the leak. You really need to pressurize the intake and perform a proper boost leak test (BLT) using soapy water. Around the throttle body there are a few places that could possibly leak- throttle body gaskets and throttle body shaft seals to name a few. I'm sure there are other possible leak points. Do a BLT, you might be surprised.

 

[EVILAWD100]

i agree i need to do a boost leak test. its funny tho because if its not one thing, its another.

to answer your dont wet engine bay question before taking necessary steps. just dont wet the engine bay period. our cars are so sensitive to water that just about any thing you can imagine will and can trigger a problem.

 

[EVILAWD100]

aww you guys arent going to believe me. now for some odd reason my rear driver side caliper i think is stuck and its smoking the back because its stuck to the caliper so its as if im breaking the whole time im driving. i dont even know what to do anymore with this car.

Im seriously start to regret my purchase. damn car was running perfect the day i bought it

 

[Demon33]

aww you guys arent going to believe me. now for some odd reason my rear driver side caliper i think is stuck and its smoking the back because its stuck to the caliper so its as if im breaking the whole time im driving. i dont even know what to do anymore with this car.

Im seriously start to regret my purchase. damn car was running perfect the day i bought it

Welcome to the world of DSMs! Trust me, you're not alone. These things can be money pits and many of them are. Especially if you start modding them with aftermarket performance parts. Back in 1989 when I purchased my car, there really weren't a TON of performance parts available to me so I didn't spend a lot of money on upgrades then. Today, even though some of the 1st gens (mine) are approaching 20 years old, the list of performance parts and modifications available seems almost endless as does the money required for these parts.

For me, it seems like my '90 AWD (I'm the original owner!) has a fit on a weekly basis. But I can't really complain, as I've neglected it for the better part of its life, only performing repairs as needed and the occasional timing belt replacement and oil change. It's been 100% stock up until about August of last year when I began installing performance parts in place of old, worn out or broken stock parts. After the past 5 years of being in storage, I'm just now beginning to fix the things that are currently broken (crank shaft pulley, carrier bearings and u-joints) or will likely break (timing components, belts and water pump) in the near future. To date, I've already invested $3k into a car that was probably worth $2K when I started. Granted, many of the parts are performance pieces, (3" SS turbo back, HKS cams, SX AFPR, fuel pump, 4-bolt rear, Big Brakes w/ SS lines, etc.) but still, $3k is $3k. My list of fixes and upgrades seems to have no end and I don't think another $3k will even cover it. If I just kept to replacing the faulty stock components with stock replacement parts, I'm pretty sure I would not have spent more than $1k.

Good luck with the build/repair/upkeep of your car.

 

[EVILAWD100]

...it was running perfect the day i bought it! that makes no sense...hahaha

anyway i do appreciate the insight. im not new to dsms actually. if you check back to import tuner a few years back with a 1gb blue colored on import tuner. that was my car on power pages. i really felt like coming back to the dsm game was the way to go. nice way of having a cheap evo to build in the process. i swear i dont even launch my car or rev past 4k rpms and yet she still fails me ....ugh! anyway as an update i checked the rear and nothing. nothing burned, ripped, cracked. nothing... i cant explain it