Ignition advance

[eclipse98gs-t]

Hi
I am using a haltech stan alone ecu, and want to know How much ignition advance should I use for 15 psi on pump gas?
Turbo 57trim, turbine stage 3.
Hks 272/272 cams
Race FMIC
walbro 255 and 650`s injectors
Thanks for help

 

[GVR4592]

There are a lot of variable's that come into play when tuning ignition timing. The best way is to use a load holding dyno, but most people either don't have access to one or they can't afford it.

The safest way without using a dyno is to just go with a conservative tune until you get the hang of the Haltech and tuning your setup. Somewhere between 14-16 degrees advance at WOT should be pretty safe at that boost level, depending on your A/F.

What Haltech box are you using? E6X? Are you building a map from scratch or using something you downloaded?

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

Hi GVR4592
I started from a base map provided by my dealer
I have at 1 bar 19 degrees of ignition advance from 3500 rpm to 8000 rpm
and 12.5:1 A/F at WOT
Please any info / comment would be most apreciated
Thx

 

[GVR4592]

Holy crap, are you running a knock sensor? What type of fuel are you using? Any water/alcohol injection?

 

[shortydtp]

that is wayy too lean and such of a agressive timing.

i would get those arf to 10.00 and start from there. timing for 15psi ... 16-17 on pump gas.
what's the highest octane you can get from the pump??

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

Hi folks, first of all, thanks so much for your help.
Well. i dont have Knock sensor but I already order one from summit (MSD Knock alert) it will come on two weaks i hope.
About fuel, the highest octane I can get from the pump is 97 RON. I believe is equivalent to your 92.
Im not using any water/alcohol injection.
Haltech is E6X model.
I just trying to tune my car but here we dont have dynos and its so dificult to do it, so i apreciated every help from you.
Thanks again.

 

[GVR4592]

that is wayy too lean and such of a agressive timing.

i would get those arf to 10.00 and start from there. timing for 15psi ... 16-17 on pump gas.
what's the highest octane you can get from the pump??

That is what I would too. Richen it up a bit and go from there. 12.5:1 is where you would tune a N/A car in the torque peak. Try somewhere around 10.8:1- 11.2:1. That is a very safe range and shouldn't cause damage to your engine.

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

That is what I would too. Richen it up a bit and go from there. 12.5:1 is where you would tune a N/A car in the torque peak. Try somewhere around 10.8:1- 11.2:1. That is a very safe range and shouldn't cause damage to your engine.

Ok.
What about timing advance?
Here we have "race fuel" 110 RON (100 LL).
How much timing advance with this race fuel?
Thanks again

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

Update.
Today we have done some mods.
Now, timing advance is 17 deg. from 3500 rpm to 8000 rpm and 11.9:1 A/F at WOT.
Boost 16psi.
Car feels better now and EGT just go to 1500 max.
(before that and i forget to tell you, egt go to 1650) I think it was because agresive timing and lean AFR.
Thanks for help

 

[daren_p]

Am I understanding correctly about the timing advance, your saying it holds steady at 17 deg from 3500 to 8000 rpms? Is this something you can do with the Haltech or did you just word it wrong? Usually on the onset of boost your timing will be retarded (down to something like 5-8 deg) then will start to climb all the way to redline. If your seeing 19 or so deg at redline your seeing a nice advance. Some cars like more timing while others don't, you just have to try it out and see. Defently get a knock sensor hooked up, or you can do some serious damage pretty quickly. Good to hear you richened that tune abit for pump gas

 

[andymoraitis]

That is what I would too. Richen it up a bit and go from there. 12.5:1 is where you would tune a N/A car in the torque peak. Try somewhere around 10.8:1- 11.2:1. That is a very safe range and shouldn't cause damage to your engine.

1000% dead nuts, balls on correct. 12.5:1 on pump is insane on a turbo motor. Keep in mind that our motors are more sentitive to timing than they are to A/F. You could run an 11:1 and see minimal gains going to 12:1 whereas you would see big power made with 6-8 additional degrees of timing advance on the correct fuel in the absence of heavy knock. Keep in mind that on pump gas, the general rule is to get A/F in range, dial up boost and then subtract a bit of timing as needed. It's always boost over timing on pump (to a point). ECR (effective compression ratio) will also have a great deal to do with how much boost and timing you can run as will the air charge temperature.

If that was my motor, Id' take the timing back to about 14 degrees, get the A/F to 11:1 or so and dial up more boost as soon as you have the knock sensor in place (basically follow GVR4592's advice).

Andy

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

Update.
Hi. Yesterday i put race gas on my talon.
19 degrees timing advance and 21 psi.
A/F were on 11.3
Car made low 12s... is this good time ?
Mods are in first post.
By the way, when i turned up boost, car stutter during acceleration, like electrical failure.
Plugs are BPR7ES and 0.028 gap... i dont know why car did this stutter.
Stutter is not like boost leak (because i know how boost leak feels)
Opinions please

 

[GVR4592]

I would check the plugs and see what kind of condition they are in. It's pretty common to foul plugs when you are doing a lot of tuning.

 

[starion4g63]

Update.
Hi. Yesterday i put race gas on my talon.
19 degrees timing advance and 21 psi.
A/F were on 11.3
Car made low 12s... is this good time ?
Mods are in first post.
By the way, when i turned up boost, car stutter during acceleration, like electrical failure.
Plugs are BPR7ES and 0.028 gap... i dont know why car did this stutter.
Stutter is not like boost leak (because i know how boost leak feels)
Opinions please

Good old haltech. try a br8es plug. You dont need the p. Gap them down to about .25. Stock ignition is good for atleast 35psi when all is right. What are your coil charge times set to? Your timming is ok at 19 but dont go higher without a close tune and 115octane or better. Haltech likes timming unlike the aem. we have ran as high as 27 in some race cars. Now for a/f all cars are not the same. you could have a rich miss at 11.2 lean it out slow(11.5-11.8) and learn how to read plugs. without knock control you need to take things slow and be carefule. Here is 1 thing you will have a problem with,650cc injectors. Check your duty cylcle. haltech's like big injetors. we were at 94%duty with 96lb injetors at the 525whp mark.

 

[GVR4592]

You must have had fuel delivery issues to be maxing such a large injector with 525whp.

 

[starion4g63]

You must have had fuel delivery issues to be maxing such a large injector with 525whp.

Once again haltech's like big injectors. same fuel system and injector with an aem went 9.7 148mph and 82% duty cycle. This is fact take it for what its worth.

btw- 525 real hp not dynojet bs. this car with 525 went 10.4 136mph all day on a bfg dr.

 

[GVR4592]

What does the ecu brand have to do with injector size?

 

[starion4g63]

well where do we start. lets get the basics. 1 the amps the injector drivers in the ecu can put out,thats why with high impedence injectors you need an injetor driver box(or resistor). Before I get to deep here,to answer your ?? yes the brand of ecu has a every thing to do with injector control and hence there size.

 

[GVR4592]

Feel free to get deep in your explanation.

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

Well.
I have an aeromotive FPR.
My base pressure is set at 38 psi.
Is this correct? Should i raise pressure?
In case yes, how much psi?
Thanks for help

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

Anyone?

 

[GVR4592]

Correct base pressure for a 2g is 43 psi, but when you are using a standalone system you can set it wherever you want, as long as you compensate for it in your tuning. If you raise the pressure you will have to retune. Why do you want to raise the pressure?

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

My car is an EAGLE TALON 1990 AWD (sorry for my nickname, i dont know how change it)
I want to raise pressure... i think (maybe wrong) more fuel is safe and better.
Thanks for help

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Raising fuel pressure makes the injectors seem bigger, but the pump will get smaller Unless you are running a shitload of pump, I don't recomend raising fuel pressure to get more fuel. Get the right sized injectors instead. If you are not maxing out your injectors or pump (haven't seen you mention any symptoms of this), there is no need to mess with fuel pressure.

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

People
There is something is make me crazy!
Is another post Ive read:
Post:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204734&page=2

"RPM Air Timing o2
2760 6.81 16.5 .86
3008 9.38 9.5 .86
3352 12.25 10 .92
3752 13.82 9.5 .94
4140 15.35 11.2 .94
4504 16.9 12.5 .94
4876 18.11 11.5 .96
5216 19.45 13.5 .96
5556 19.83 16.0 .96
5868 21.25 16.5 .96
6152 21.54 18.0 .96
6420 21.56 18.5 .96
6676 21.19 19.5 .94
6904 20.83 18.5 .94

That's a purty' log you got there. " etc etc etc

We can read lambda = 0.94
That means 94% of 14.7 = AFR 13.8 (!)
How is that posible???
Andymoraitis said (in this very post):
"1000% dead nuts, balls on correct. 12.5:1 on pump is insane on a turbo motor"
Then 13.8 is super leaner!
Please somebody explain me WTF is going on? WTF

Thanks