Resolved i need help with some wires, car not starting

[naw9119]

Got ready to turn the car over after the rebuild to prime the oil pump. Well all I got was a click. so i checked the started and fuses all good. Tried it again the same thing but this time smoke and the smell of burnt plastic from under the cd player. so pulled it all out couldnt find anything. I the mist of looking i ran my hand across the ecu it was very hot. pulled it out and noticed a random black autozone relay laying on the floor of the car right in front of the ECU. Got the ecu out and a resistor is fried, but dont have the slightes ideal of what the relay is. it is hooked up to a gold metal box that has the marking E8T07071 it is to the rear and pass side of the car. The fuse on the autozone relay is blown. if anybody could let me know what it stock gold box does or controls it would be great. Could this stop the car from turning over? i would post a pic but i dont know how.

 

[19Eclipse90]

The little gold box is your MPI relay. When activated by the ECU, the relay should turn on the power supply switch, ultimately powering the injectors, mass air flow sensor, idle air control motor, cam angle sensor, etc.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean by an "Autozone relay", so if you could snap a picture and post it up, it would help us help you. Does the car have an aftermarket alarm system or turbo timer? Wiseman "steve" once mentioned that low quality installs of these items may result in hacked wiring going to the MPI relay.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

The little gold box is your MPI relay. When activated by the ECU, the relay should turn on the power supply switch, ultimately powering the injectors, mass air flow sensor, idle air control motor, cam angle sensor, etc.

I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean by an "Autozone relay", so if you could snap a picture and post it up, it would help us help you. Does the car have an aftermarket alarm system or turbo timer? Wiseman "steve" once mentioned that low quality installs of these items may result in hacked wiring going to the MPI relay.

What he said. Please post a picture of said "autozone relay"

If your ECU is damaged I would recommend contacting either ECMtuning or the wiseman that 19Eclipse90 mentioned, Steve. Both work on DSM ECU's and have great reputations.

Hope this helps!

 

[naw9119]

i snapped a few pics but I dont know how to put them up on this forum. If you could point me to instructions on how to i will put them up.

the car doesnt have a after market alarm or turbo timer on it. Could The MPI relay cause the car not to turn over. Im thinking the wiring job on the MPI might be what caused the damage to my ECU. What I mean by autozone relay, there is just one of those common black relays hooked into the wires that come out of the MPI.

 

[19Eclipse90]

Attach the image using this site's file attachment feature. When you go to make a new reply, scroll down to Additional Options-Attach Files and click Upload or Edit Photos. Then it is simply a matter of finding the file on your PC, as long as the file is appropriately sized. If it is too large, take it to MS Paint, stretch and skew the size (proportionally), re-save the file, and upload the new one.

edit: Just saw your addition to your post, so I'll make one as well. I want to be clear about this, making sure we are on the same page -- the MPI relay will not keep the engine from turning over. It will, however, keep the engine from starting. Unless there is additional wiring going to or from the Autozone relay, it has no purpose of being there. Get the pictures up so we can help further.

 

[naw9119]

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you cant really see it in the pic but one of the wires on the black relay is melted really bad.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a71/jasminewatts/CIMG7861.jpg

Would the Burnt resistor in the ECU have any Thing to do with the engine not turning over? If not that means I have another problem to deal with. So do you think it would be ok to just remove the relay? Any Ideals why it is there?

 

[19Eclipse90]

I was hoping you would catch on to the jargon I used in my last post. To me there is a difference between turning over and starting. Turning over infers that the engine rotates due to the starter or manually turning the crankshaft on the timing belt side via a 3/4" ratchet or breaker bar. I would assume you are using the two interchangeably. This isn't something against you, it's something I see quite often on the board. Depending on the situation, it can be very confusing.

With that said, the burnt resistor in the ECU could very well keep the engine from starting. Wiseman steve would be able to tell you more about that if you were to snap some pictures and send them his way. Regardless, a burnt resistor is damage -- take the advice of 9!'clipseDOHC and have it repaired through ECMtuning or steve if he still does it. This should be your first step to correcting the vehicle's issues.

I did a little tracing on my own car and a few wiring diagrams to try and help out; I'm no EE so this is all very basic understanding. First off, there is no solid blue wire anywhere to be found running in the MPI harness. Trace it into the connector and, using the picture you posted as a reference, tell us which wire "port" (there are 10 total "ports" on the connector; for example, in the picture you posted, the black with white stripes is top, third from either side) it is running to. Secondly, the black wire with white stripes runs to the ignition coil if I understand correctly. Why there would be an additional relay in line with another is beyond me.

Again, I'm no EE or natural born electrical genius, so take this next part with a grain of salt. But if it were my car and the blue wire appeared to be non-critical, I would remove the hole bunch of that relay addition, appropriately fix the black with white stripe wire to get rid of the splice, and basically convert it back to how it originally was.

 

[naw9119]

I know the diffrence between starting and truning over. I was just wondering if a ECU problem could somehow cause the starter not to turn the engine over. I know a ECU problem could cause the car not to start. I was just wondering it has any control over the starter?

 

[92EagleAWD]

All that ghetto rigged wiring may have fried the Starter Fuse or the Starter relay. But if your hearing a click when turning the ignition to the start position the relay may yet be working. Just double check all the basics first and use the Porcess of elimination.
#1: Fuse
#2: Batt Connection
#3: Starter Connection
#4: Relay
#5: Ignition

 

[19Eclipse90]

I know the diffrence between starting and truning over.

I assumed incorrectly, then, and I apologize for giving you unhelpful information from that standpoint. As I mentioned before, it can get confusing depending on the situation.

I was just wondering if a ECU problem could somehow cause the starter not to turn the engine over. I know a ECU problem could cause the car not to start. I was just wondering it has any control over the starter?

No. The starter circuit depends solely on the battery, starter relay, clutch pedal or park/neutral position switch, and ignition switch, the items 92EagleAWD mentioned above. When the ignition switch is switched to the "start" position and the clutch pedal position switch (M/T) is depressed or the car is in park or neutral (A/T), electricity is allowed to flow through the starter relay (?M/T?) and the starter motor, thus activating the starter motor.

 

[naw9119]

cool ive sent the ECU off to be checked and My next day off I will fix the wires on the MPI and start the starter system troubleshooting. Thanks for all the help everyone!! I'll keep you posted

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

When the ignition switch is switched to the "start" position and the clutch pedal position switch (M/T) is depressed or the car is in park or neutral (A/T), electricity is allowed to flow through the starter relay (?M/T?) and the starter motor, thus activating the starter motor.

Is it a manual transmission? If so, make sure that you clutch safety switch is being depressed when you push the clutch in. There is a little plastic insert in the clutch pedal arm that activates the clutch safety switch. I was talking to a DSM buddy last night and both of our cars (both '91s) had that plastic piece fall out within the past couple of years. If the switch isn't being depressed your car will not turn over at all. On mine I just put a bolt through the hole in the clutch pedal and problem solved.

Hope this helps!

 

[naw9119]

fixed the turning over problem. Checked the Cluch switch: GOOD. Checked the starter: GOOD. looked at the starter relay by the fuse box looked kinda crooked. Pushed it in all the way, turned the key BINGO. Just got to wait on my ecu and I'm ready to go. Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Glad you got it figured out! Electrical issues like that can be frustrating and then it's usually something simple.