I just dont understand this about my car and sti...

[rob1621]

Ok so my buddy just got his sti dynoed and it came to be right around 240whp. And from what ive read having a ported 14b with a bunch of supporting mods pushin 15/16psi should come out to around that same number. But i know for a fact that the STi would just woop on the eclipse.

Why is that? i know weight and all that but at relativly the same horse power, why is the sti sooo much faster?

Sorry if this is simple but ive never understood it.


Also side question:when dealing with dynoing...what gives u better numbers high altitude lower altitude? and how much does humidity and temp play into it?


edit: when i say a bunch of supporting mods, i mean ported o2, ported ex mani, 3" tbe and intake

 

[TrystanGST]

I can't answer the STi vs Eclipse bench race, but colder, denser air is always going to be better than warmer, thinner air.

So lower altitudes, colder temps, and less humidity all favor power.

 

[falcon8r]

My brother has an STI, an '06 with the Cobb stuff. It is a bigger engine by % 25 so more torque is available. Torque is what the much better 6spd tranny in the STI likes. Now... My brother is very impressed how my Talon pulls 3rd. gear with the 272 cam. Different ride from the STI for sure. My falcon has way more torque than the sti or talon,+ 500 lbs. without the spray . It feels fast always from any rpm. It will run 10s BTW. Apples and oranges. Tres...

 

[rob1621]

I can't answer the STi vs Eclipse bench race, but colder, denser air is always going to be better than warmer, thinner air.

So lower altitudes, colder temps, and less humidity all favor power.

Alright thanks that clears that up

I see ## from Chi, you gonna go to the Dells auto show this weekend?

My brother has an STI, an '06 with the Cobb stuff. It is a bigger engine by % 25 so more torque is available. Torque is what the much better 6spd tranny in the STI likes. Now... My brother is very impressed how my Talon pulls 3rd. gear with the 272 cam. Different ride from the STI for sure. My falcon has way more torque than the sti or talon,+ 500 lbs. without the spray . It feels fast always from any rpm. It will run 10s BTW. Apples and oranges. Tres...

So in a nutshell, its the larger motor and greater torque?

 

[JayRolla]

If you do not have a good EMS where you can pull timing add boost and lean out the AFR you will not be making even close to 240whp with those mods. Its all about the tune. I dynoed 327whp on a 16g at 30psi on e85 and thats not to far from your 240 estimated HP figure.

 

[falcon8r]

Alright thanks that clears that up

I see ## from Chi, you gonna go to the Dells auto show this weekend?




So in a nutshell, its the larger motor and greater torque?

Yes, in a nutshell. Remember too that the Sti turbo is much like a s16g. Get up around 500 cfm and your 14b is in trouble. Bigger engine, more cfm, + fuel..guess what. FWIW-the 4g63 will kick the subi boxers ass in a hp. war, no contest.

 

[rob1621]

If you do not have a good EMS where you can pull timing add boost and lean out the AFR you will not be making even close to 240whp with those mods. Its all about the tune. I dynoed 327whp on a 16g at 30psi on e85 and thats not to far from your 240 estimated HP figure.

Really not even close? With ported o2, ported mani, ported 14b, 3" full tbe, intake and turned up a few psi?

From my research, i should be pretty close to 240whp.

What do you think i will be making with that set up? (if that question is unaswerable due to rules, dont answer it.)

 

[JayRolla]

Well on a stock 2g you will dyno around 170whp. You get an estimated 10whp per 1psi of boost you add. So a few psi on top of the small mods will net you around 200whp IMO. With a good amount of timing pulled and 20psi you could make 250+whp on that turbo.

On a side note my buddy has a 2.0L WRX and with exhaust, intake and Turbo XS EMS he made 240whp. Before the tune it made 190whp on the same boost.

 

[rob1621]

Hmmm I see. Kinda disappointing. This whole time i thought i was/would be getting more.

wow....im kind of pissed.

*sigh*

 

[BIRDCLAWTSi]

Dont feel pissed man. Your car is basically stock. Thats not a bad guesstimate(200Whp). It's hard to say what you would put down on the dyno with a good tune. It may be more, It may not be. If it's not, Then you start looking into your next step in the quest for power! Build with a goal in mind. Then whoop that subies ass.

 

[rob1621]

Dont feel pissed man. Your car is basically stock. Thats not a bad guesstimate(200Whp). It's hard to say what you would put down on the dyno with a good tune. It may be more, It may not be. If it's not, Then you start looking into your next step in the quest for power! Build with a goal in mind. Then whoop that subies ass.

Ha, right on! Thanks for the kind words my man.


EDIT: But still! I mean, 170whp stock and i have 200whp now give/take. So 30whp from an intake, 3" full exhaust, ported work on the o2/ex mani and a 14b turbo! i dont know dude, 30whp for all that...well not ALL that but a perso would def expect more...like 50whp.

 

[blade970]

I think you are SEVERELY overestimating what mods will add, especially without a tune.
Unless you tune for it, an exhaust isn't going to add really anything, and neither is an intake. If you don't tune for the extra air the engine doesn't know what to do with it, so it doesn't do anything. Maybe 5hp gained there.
Port work on your exhaust components will operate under the same theory. Less back pressure, but the engine isn't accommodating for it so it isn't adding anything worthwhile...
The only useful mod there is the turbo, which, one again, if the engine isn't told what to do by means of a tune, then it will keep doing the same thing.

I also have a 3rd gen eclipse in addition to my 1g and gained 20hp over stock with just a tune. No mods at all. It's all in the tune....always.

 

[BIRDCLAWTSi]

I think you are SEVERELY overestimating what mods will add, especially without a tune.
Unless you tune for it, an exhaust isn't going to add really anything, and neither is an intake. If you don't tune for the extra air the engine doesn't know what to do with it, so it doesn't do anything. Maybe 5hp gained there.
Port work on your exhaust components will operate under the same theory. Less back pressure, but the engine isn't accommodating for it so it isn't adding anything worthwhile...
The only useful mod there is the turbo, which, one again, if the engine isn't told what to do by means of a tune, then it will keep doing the same thing.

I also have a 3rd gen eclipse in addition to my 1g and gained 20hp over stock with just a tune. No mods at all. It's all in the tune....always.

There is some truth to what you are saying in reference to a non turbo engine. On a turbo engine you will gain power from porting , A free'r flowing exhaust and a bigger intake. More air coming in and going out. The engine will never accommodate for any mods, The ECU on the other hand will. The MAF will read the "extra air" and adjust for it, And the bigger exhaust will help get it out faster And with less restriction, Increasing spool and power. Tuning will allow you to gain more power but i would say it's not all in the tuning, Not at all. Tuning will only take you so far by itself. You need a healthy balance of both. The proper mods and good tuning go hand in hand. You can only do so much without one or the other.

 

[blade970]

True. You make a valid point, but I still stand by it all being in the tuning. No matter how many mods you add you will never add sufficient power without a tune, and not tuning is just dangerous anyways. Thats how kids blow up their engines, slap a bigger turbo on, huge injectors, then tune? Who tunes? only noobs. kaboom

 

[SmoochDarling]

A well tuned basically STOCK 14b can easily romp an un-tuned 16g with a few supporting mods.

 

[olmytsi]

I made 243 awhp in my 2g with the following mods:

14b
act 2600
afc
255 fuel pump
18 psi

Still stock side mount and all...this was back in 2004.

 

[tallywacker]

You need a fuel pump, injectors, and a tuning device. Then you will be well on your way to getting what you expect. What you have on your car now is really nothing.

 

[GST4g63T]

The ECU can only compensate so much on stock parts. All of your mods are basically for air flow, now that you have all of that air coming into the engine how are you going to utilize it? This is where the fuel and the tunning come in, you need a device that is going to optimize your upgrades. Just as you stated you need an equal balance, this goes for air an fuel as well.

 

[gyd23]

True. You make a valid point, but I still stand by it all being in the tuning. No matter how many mods you add you will never add sufficient power without a tune, and not tuning is just dangerous anyways. Thats how kids blow up their engines, slap a bigger turbo on, huge injectors, then tune? Who tunes? only noobs. kaboom

i 2nd this.
i have been tought since i started modding cars that you must make everything work together, thats where you get the power from and thats where the name "tuners" came from. you must tune you car to get the speed and power you want out of it, yes the capability for much more power is there by throwing on parts but you need to make sure they all work with each other and support each other and "tune" properly each part so your getting 100% efficiency from each component.
for example you can have a fully built/forged engine with a giant turbo but you aren't going to make jack for power without adding the proper size injectors and tuning the system to add the proper amount of fuel.

what you have are a couple mere bolt ons, enough to take on the already fast STI? no..
but a tune and couple more mods (maybe a bigger turbo or up the boost) and you will walk the STI.

FYI from the factory STI's (least the gen's made in 04) weigh approx 150lbs more than a DSM.

EDIT: i know this is an old thread but i cam across it and wanted to put my .02 in for anyone else that comes across it

 

[Sphinx]

My brother has an STI, an '06 with the Cobb stuff. It is a bigger engine by % 25 so more torque is available. Torque is what the much better 6spd tranny in the STI likes. Now... My brother is very impressed how my Talon pulls 3rd. gear with the 272 cam. Different ride from the STI for sure. My falcon has way more torque than the sti or talon,+ 500 lbs. without the spray . It feels fast always from any rpm. It will run 10s BTW. Apples and oranges. Tres...

in referance to some of the sti questions .. allot more of the answers lye in the AWD of the two vehicals, with the STI the AWD is only limited slip left to right, where as the TSI the limited slip is not only left to right but front to back as well wich unfortunately allows the STI better power to groudn ratio off the line, wich is why in 3rd .. is why the talon reels them in like a bastard but i wouldnt be discouraged by any means .. because the DSM has huge potental