How to go about tuning an auto and getting rid of knock

[Jdiddy2k4]

Well I have an auto gsx and everything is in place in terms of tuning except the fuel pump. My setup is 660cc injectors, eprom with keydiver chip to compensate the injectors, stock smic for now, safc (currently zeroed out), rewired stock fuel pump (have an evo viii, but have been advised to get an evo ix instead).

Now my question is how do you tune an auto. Most of the work is done through the chip, but I have my boost gauge set to knocksum and if I try and floor it from a stop, the boost gauge will start climbing up so I will let off the gas. Could this be phantom knock?

Also I looked at one of my logs and timing seems fine until the tranny shifts and then the timing drops into the negative. Is this normal?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Are you using the PocketLogger software? If so, have you run the byte timing test yet? It just doesn't seem like you are getting enough samples / second.

What are the settings on your chip, such as max timing, target AFR, injector compensation, etc.

Can you make another pull logging only timing, front O2 and airflow? You'll also want to verify that your TPS reads >90% at WOT. Just set up the logger to display TPS and go WOT to make sure. You don't have to log that parameter, just verify it's working properly.

TPS trigger points on the SAFC should be set at 30% and 80%.

 

[bling5tatus]

That very likely could be phantom knock.

Hey, you should go join Dallasdsm.org and message Ligo12... he is one of the more knowledgeable people in TX... and Dallas has a HUGE DSM scene.

Ligo could tell you pretty quickly what you should do to tune an auto.... and he's "local".

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

No I have not run the byte time test yet. I am assuming that is in the menu options. The chip is set for the 660cc injectors, I am not sure of the max timing but it is set for 93 octane timing maps, and an 11.0:1 a/f ratio. I will log again tomorrow after I replace my injector seals as I think they are leaking

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

Okay got my seal in today. I also ran the byte test and I came up with 11S/sec with the 95 eprom. Here is the log in 1st. I am guessing that I will need to add some fuel on the safc around the 5000 rpm range to get rid of that knock correct?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

A little bit of the log was cut off

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[spyderturbo007]

When are you reaching full spool with that turbo? By the look of the logs, it's pretty late.

 

[jrohner]

I wouldn't worry about the low timing during the shifts, my 1g does that too and that's on E85 with a conservative tune.

For the knock getting on the throttle, have you tried richening the WOT areas a bit on your AFC? How much boost are you running? What fuel?

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

I don't hit 15psi until 5000rpms right now. I know before I put in the eprom and 660cc, the car was hitting 20psi by 3800, so I am guessing I might've jumped timing or somewhere between then and now I got an enormous boost leak that wasn't already there. Any ideas?

 

[toofast82]

I don't hit 15psi until 5000rpms right now. I know before I put in the eprom and 660cc, the car was hitting 20psi by 3800, so I am guessing I might've jumped timing or somewhere between then and now I got an enormous boost leak that wasn't already there. Any ideas?

Yeah if your still on the stock t25 it should be falling on its face at this point. But yeah youre on the right track with checking for boost leaks and double check your timing is on point. another log would help too

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

this is on a small 16g. Could timing being off affect the car like this? I mean that is an enormous gap in the rpm range in terms of full boost when before ANY tuning and ANY of the boost leaks were fixed the s16g would creep to 20psi by 3800, but now for some reason it barely hits 15psi at 5000rpm with the proper mods in place (injectors, eprom with keydiver chip, rewired pump, etc), and a couple boost leaks fixed.

EDIT: Ok jeff from dsmchips.com emailed me and said something about fuel trims. I reset my fuel trims by disconnecting the nagative battery cable and also swapped out wastegates. Now I have boost levels of 20-25psi below 4000rpm (I am NOT running it like this don't worry. Just had to test to see if the boost was still out of whack) so disregard the late boost problem.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Sounds like your wastegate was blowing open.

Now that we have the taken care of, can you post another log after verifying that your TPS sensor reads >90% at WOT.

Log only timing, knock, airflow and front O2. Also, post up your hi throttle correction factors and corresponding Ne points. You might also want to run the byte timing test, because you aren't getting a ton of samples / second.

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

I just sent you a PM about the boost problem that I have now so i can't run a log now because the boost is uncontrollable and constantly hitting 20+psi if I go WOT. My TPS shows 100 on the logger at WOT (verified before the uncontrollable boost problem) so that is good to go. I haven't used the safc at all as of yet. It is zeroed out and I am just using the keydiver chip.

Also I ran the byte timing test and with the 95 eprom the test was only able to get up to 11S/sec is that about right or should it be higher than that

 

[spyderturbo007]

The 11 samples / second is just fine. I replied to your PM but if possible, it would be better to keep the communication in the open forums. That way everyone can benefit from the information and offer their opinions and possible solutions to the problem.

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

Ok I replied to the PM before I read this thread, but for anyone else. Pretty much in terms of the uncontrollable boost problem. I have tested the s16g and an evo3 wastegate with my compressor and they both seem to operate fine. The boost will go to 10psi and then shoot up to 20+ with no signs of stopping so I have to let off the gas. I can't take the car to redline at WOT to see if the psi is going to drop because of this problem. This is with BOTH wastegates, so I don't think they are the problem. I am hooking up the wastegate directly to the jpipe and see if that helps me at all.

 

[tunethis]

Ok I replied to the PM before I read this thread, but for anyone else. Pretty much in terms of the uncontrollable boost problem. I have tested the s16g and an evo3 wastegate with my compressor and they both seem to operate fine. The boost will go to 10psi and then shoot up to 20+ with no signs of stopping so I have to let off the gas. I can't take the car to redline at WOT to see if the psi is going to drop because of this problem. This is with BOTH wastegates, so I don't think they are the problem. I am hooking up the wastegate directly to the jpipe and see if that helps me at all.

It may be something else but... Do you have a hole in the hose coming off the wastegate or at your boost controller? I remember my car would boost like that before I noticed a hole in my wastegate hose. After replacing it, the boost controller was able to hold the boost at the 15psi I set it for.

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

Well I hooked a hose directly to the jpipe and wastegate and the boost sometimes stays rock solid at 10psi and then others it just creeps up the boost gauge to say 20psi so I assume I have boost creep going on correct?

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

Okay boost problem seems to be solved now I have another problem that is keeping me from tuning. Can anybody tell me why I am getting this much knock before even hitting 3k from a stop. I am not flooring the gas either. Here is the log

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Based on the 2g timing tables, it looks like you are knocking through that pull, however things get "funny" a part throttle. Can you do a quick pull from a stop to let's say 4k, dropping O2 trim from the log and replacing it with TPS? Have you checked your knock sensor for "goo" leakage? Also, I see that your O2 sensor is reading on the low side compared to most 2g's. That could be a result of a dying O2 sensor, or you could be running lean.

Is your chip set up for the stock 2g timing tables and target AFR, or has it been modified?

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

My chip is set-up for 93 octane timing maps and an 11:1 WOT AFR. How do I drop the o2 trim? I just select 02 bank 1 and trim seems to come along with it, but it is not shown in pocketlogger. The o2 sensor was replaced a few months ago with the bosch oem replacement from autozone. I guess I might need to check the knock sensor. Do I just reach my hand in the back of the engine and feel for goo?

I have also noticed that when I step on the gas from a complete stop, the wideband will sometimes go to 15.x before it goes back to the rich side where it should be. Could this be the problem? Any other gear when I step on the gas the wideband immediately goes richer, but it is like there is a hesitation from a stop

 

[spyderturbo007]

If you go into the parameter selection screen in the PocketLogger software, you can deselect O2 Trim. If I remember correctly, it's on the logging screen at the bottom and looks like a wrench.

Depending on where in the exhaust you placed your WBO2, there will be a delay between AFR changes and the actual AFR change at the sensor. It's most likely that when you're cruising the exhaust gas velocity is higher than when you're at a stop so the WBO2 responds more quickly.

Typically, the goo leakage on the knock sensor is noticeable so you should be able to feel it if you stick your hand up there.

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

Here are a few logs. I couldn't get the car to repeat the knock this time around so I don't know what is going on. So do you want me to log the wideband or the narrowband or neither because so far every log I have posted is with the narrowband?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Doh! We lost airflow on those logs, so I can't reference the timing tables to see if you are knocking.



If you can log the WBO2, that would be great.

Which WBO2 are you running?

Sorry, I'm playing with the new smilies.

 

[Jdiddy2k4]

well I won't be able to post a log until I get the car back from the body shop. I just dropped it off. So I will PM you when I post a new log. The wideband is an aem uego. It is wired into the rear o2 sensor pin on the ecu. So will I just log the wideband or both the wideband and narrowband when I get the car back?