How Do You Cut A good FWD 60'?

[Hooptytalon]

This question is for the traction challenged FWD guys:
I want to cut a good 60', my best is a lousy 2.6 launching @ 3500 rpm and shifting @ 6500. I think if I cut a decent enough 60' I can break into the high 14s(i know its slow but we all gotta start somewhere) with a K&N, C10 100 oct. and Hallman set @ 16 psi I trap anywhere from 95mph(when cool) to 92(hotlapping and probably heatsoaked).
Wanna share some tips to help me break into the 14s?
Thanx guys!

 

[DSMSpyder99]

i launch at 3000RPM also i do a pretty good burnout i think my best so far is low 2.3's

Also try:
better tires (wider and stickier)
lowering psi in tires
burnout in water box
poly-urathane motor mounts (drastically less wheel hop)
LSD

 

[Defiant]

Do it in reverse.

 

[Trctnless]

Dual Stage Boost Controler Make your own.. its easy, using the stock solenoid/WG for the low boost stage then your MBC for the high boost

On=low boost for launch
Off = high boost for 2nd gear on.

I usually cut 2.3's on 320 TW street tires @ 30psi. After I implemented the DSBC I was cutting 2.1's all night. I swear it took 4.10th's off my 1/8 mile from 9.4@78 -9.1@80

It still takes lots of practice. Having a low boost option for 1st gear allowed me to FLOOR IT in 1st and not spin wheels or hop. I dynoed my car last week for base line. With the low boost 'ON" (11psi) it makes 195WHP. Once its off and i'm running the MBC set 16psi the motor produces 225whp. (Untunned still) 25 HP can be the differnece between cooking tires and gripping in 1st gear.

Good Luck.

 

[twoboosted]

This question is for the traction challenged FWD guys:
I want to cut a good 60', my best is a lousy 2.6 launching @ 3500 rpm and shifting @ 6500. I think if I cut a decent enough 60' I can break into the high 14s(i know its slow but we all gotta start somewhere) with a K&N, C10 100 oct. and Hallman set @ 16 psi I trap anywhere from 95mph(when cool) to 92(hotlapping and probably heatsoaked).
Wanna share some tips to help me break into the 14s?
Thanx guys!

Try a good set of slicks (24.5/13's) 60 to date 1.73 or drag radials (size 14) 60 to date 2.1.

 

[talontsi01]

For your current setup, just make sure you heat up the tires well enough and lower the psi to get better grip. I replaced my old struts and noticed a huge improvement in wheel hop.

 

[Hooptytalon]

For your current setup, just make sure you heat up the tires well enough and lower the psi to get better grip. I replaced my old struts and noticed a huge improvement in wheel hop.

So a good burnout will help my traction, even on street radials?
I was under the impression that on street tires traction gets worse the hotter they get

 

[DSMSpyder99]

all i know is with my Yoko AVS ES100 i managed to go from 15.1 to a 14.8 by warming up the tires in the waterbox and shifting at 6200RPM (T-25). Also my 60' dropped from a 2.595 to a 2.397. Next time i go im gonna lower my tire pressure and run W/ a waterbox burnout and W/O a waterbox burn out see if which one does better.

 

[fastdsm18]

street radials are made of materials that are not suppose to heat up the tire for dependability and longevity. So you are pretty much wasting your time and tires by doing burnouts.

just lower the pressure if you are going to run street tires that will help a little. Whats really gonna help is lowering your car with some good springs and get some tokico adjustable shocks. And while your at it get some motor mounts to stiff things up and get rid off wheel-hop. On street tire's with the stuff I told you about above u will lower your 60' times by alot.

I am actually running stock suspension on 19psi and I can get 2.3 60' times all day. That's with stock sized wheels with stock size rubber.

 

[efeezie]

Slicks and a LSD. I cut 1.7x 60's all day with my dinky 22 x 8 x 15 mickey thompsons. As far as suspension all I have is 2" drop zone springs.

 

[GinNBoost]

-Adjustable shocks (stiffen up front, soften up rear...it might be the other way around, I forget)
- LSD
- Waterbox burnout to heat street tires making them stickier
- lower tire pressure to about 18 psi
- low boost in first, high boost in higher gears (Dual stage EBC only)
- motor mount inserts
- Damn good tires


And another secret might even be to get 18 inch rims. Alot of people say that 18s are absurd to use on the track but they reduce wheelspin a great deal due to the weight of them. (of course that's also the flaw of bigger rims) Plus it looks cool flying down the track on street tires and nice rims.

 

[FourG63 97GST]

hmm, why do you all burnout street tires, they dont need to be warmed up like drag radials or slicks.

anywho, i think u just need practice. my best so far is 2.3 all the other were 2.5-2.6

 

[Hooptytalon]

Thanx for the insights guys!
I was running 15.4s all night... I figured What have I got to lose with a burnout besides tread?! So locked the e brake in the box and lit em' up... Launching @ 4500rpm-5000rpm with tires @ 25psi front and 40 psi rear and the 14b weezing out 18 psi I cut a 2.4 60' and a [email protected] let the sidemount cool down and did the exact same thing as above and turned 14.993@97mph!
breaking into 14s (if even barely) was my goal, thanx guys!

 

[98eclipseRS]

ah my head, there is so much wrong info being thrown all over this thread I can't stand it.

alright first off DO NOT BURN OUT WITH STREET TIRES!!! you are not getting anything out of it absolutely nothing but tearing up your tires and making them last half as long as they should. Second by burning out with street tires you will be greatly pissing off all the guys with slicks and dr's becuase you are taking all the prep spray the track lays down(forgot the officail name of the stuff) and they won't get much of a good launch. If you are lucky you will get a run in after all high hp rwd purpose built drag cars with slicks run. When they burn out their tires(slicks) which are meant to be heated up also work with the prep spray to make it stickier, every get runs in on a night with lots of street cars and then another with lots of REAL drag cars?? which night did you cut a better 60'?(hint: the night with the real drag cars)

Next the front should be as loose as possible, the stiffer the front suspension is the worst. The back is what you want stiff, this keeps the ass end from squating as much and reduce wait transfer away from the front of the car which in a fwd car = bad times. A thing I found that helped was to jack up the rear of the car before you run and throw some of those rubber suspension blocks you can buy from pepboys or something between the coils of your springs. This makes the rear end have almost no travel at all which is very very very good for a fwd car.

Rims/tires: where to start? Larger wheels = BAD, Low profile tires = BAD, heave wheels =BAD. You want to have the largest side wall possible, this way the tires absorb the shock of the launch better, why do you think drag radials and slicks have such soft sidewalls?? next only get wider tires if you have the rims to accomodate them! don't throw 225's on the stock wheels becuase you will be worse off than before. DO NOT lower your tire preassure to much. i have found ~22psi works wonders but every car/tire combo is different so find out what works for you. However lowering tire pressure to much cause the tread to crunch together and not contact the pavement fully, which you can assume would make traction difficult to attain.

a few other random tips, Get ALL the weight you can out of the rear this means remove spare/jack/tools, all rear seats, privacy covers/spare tire cover, carpet, windsheild wiper fluid resevior(if you really want to go hardcore gut the entire rear of your car i.e. wiper motor/blade, antena motor). Go with a 1/4 tank of gas anything more is useless and puts unwanted weight over the rear tires. MOTOR MOUNTS get them and love them they are your friend, they do not add that much vibration to the ride as a matter of fact I didn't notice any. uuuhhhh....I think that's it if I can think of anything else I will post.

Oh and the single most important mod to the car------> the driver, driver confidence plays a big role, also go out and practice your launches by yourself on an abandoned street, you make think you look or osund like a tard to your friends but when you go to the track with them and you suck at driving you will look like a bigger idiot than if you just went out and practiced.

 

[DSMSpyder99]

ah my head, there is so much wrong info being thrown all over this thread I can't stand it.

alright first off DO NOT BURN OUT WITH STREET TIRES!!! you are not getting anything out of it absolutely nothing but tearing up your tires and making them last half as long as they should. Second by burning out with street tires you will be greatly pissing off all the guys with slicks and dr's becuase you are taking all the prep spray the track lays down(forgot the officail name of the stuff) and they won't get much of a good launch. If you are lucky you will get a run in after all high hp rwd purpose built drag cars with slicks run. When they burn out their tires(slicks) which are meant to be heated up also work with the prep spray to make it stickier, every get runs in on a night with lots of street cars and then another with lots of REAL drag cars?? which night did you cut a better 60'?(hint: the night with the real drag cars)

Next the front should be as loose as possible, the stiffer the front suspension is the worst. The back is what you want stiff, this keeps the ass end from squating as much and reduce wait transfer away from the front of the car which in a fwd car = bad times. A thing I found that helped was to jack up the rear of the car before you run and throw some of those rubber suspension blocks you can buy from pepboys or something between the coils of your springs. This makes the rear end have almost no travel at all which is very very very good for a fwd car.

Rims/tires: where to start? Larger wheels = BAD, Low profile tires = BAD, heave wheels =BAD. You want to have the largest side wall possible, this way the tires absorb the shock of the launch better, why do you think drag radials and slicks have such soft sidewalls?? next only get wider tires if you have the rims to accomodate them! don't throw 225's on the stock wheels becuase you will be worse off than before. DO NOT lower your tire preassure to much. i have found ~22psi works wonders but every car/tire combo is different so find out what works for you. However lowering tire pressure to much cause the tread to crunch together and not contact the pavement fully, which you can assume would make traction difficult to attain.

a few other random tips, Get ALL the weight you can out of the rear this means remove spare/jack/tools, all rear seats, privacy covers/spare tire cover, carpet, windsheild wiper fluid resevior(if you really want to go hardcore gut the entire rear of your car i.e. wiper motor/blade, antena motor). Go with a 1/4 tank of gas anything more is useless and puts unwanted weight over the rear tires. MOTOR MOUNTS get them and love them they are your friend, they do not add that much vibration to the ride as a matter of fact I didn't notice any. uuuhhhh....I think that's it if I can think of anything else I will post.

Oh and the single most important mod to the car------> the driver, driver confidence plays a big role, also go out and practice your launches by yourself on an abandoned street, you make think you look or osund like a tard to your friends but when you go to the track with them and you suck at driving you will look like a bigger idiot than if you just went out and practiced.

SOME street tires dont like heat but some like the heat. My Yokos like the heat my 60' dipped .2 better when they are warmed up. I have done it multiple times with and without burnouts and my tires get better time when they are warm. So saying it doesnt do any is wrong. Everything i agree with you lowering the psi too much will result in worse traction, prothane mounts are great (i should know i just got some), weight shift in a FWD is bad, so soft in the front and stiff in the rear is ideal.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

My best 60' when I was stock was 2.371. That was on 205 street tires.

 

[GinNBoost]

Oh and the single most important mod to the car------> the driver, driver confidence plays a big role, also go out and practice your launches by yourself on an abandoned street, you make think you look or osund like a tard to your friends but when you go to the track with them and you suck at driving you will look like a bigger idiot than if you just went out and practiced.

I've actually done this before, but the problem with practicing is that you never really can tell what a "good" launch is. My friend has an HKS turbo timer which measures 60 ft times but how can one tell when they have launched good? Should I mark a line at 60 ft and have a friend use a stopwatch to clock me or what?

 

[98eclipseRS]

^^^yes that is a potentail problem, the problem lies in the fact that you have to use seat of the pants measure which obviously is not acurate at all. However just having the seat time and going through the motions will help you get the feel of the car and the clutch that much more. So that when you do go to the track adapting to the condition will be easier since you have a better feel of the car.

 

[fastdsm18]

SOME street tires dont like heat but some like the heat. My Yokos like the heat my 60' dipped .2 better when they are warmed up. I have done it multiple times with and without burnouts and my tires get better time when they are warm. So saying it doesnt do any is wrong. Everything i agree with you lowering the psi too much will result in worse traction, prothane mounts are great (i should know i just got some), weight shift in a FWD is bad, so soft in the front and stiff in the rear is ideal.

Ok street tires are street tires. The tires don't get better times you do. When I go to the track I am pretty sure it is like this with everyone, The more times you go down the track the better your times get unless you just don't know how to drive or there is something wrong with your car. Again like I said before all you are doing is wasting your tires that are for the street and not for the dragstrip.

 

[GSntncT]

Try a good set of slicks (24.5/13's) 60 to date 1.73 or drag radials (size 14) 60 to date 2.1.

I thought you have to upgrade the axles to run slicks.

Also, I see that you have ran with 14s. I still have two 14" N/T rims at home. Would I be able to throw radials on them?

 

[Laser93Nash]

Don't do a burnout on street tires. . Street tires arn't meant for that kind of stuff. When you do a burnout on street tires the rubber that you take off forms into little balls/pebbles of rubber and sticks to your tires which can hurt traction, ALOT.

~Andrew~

P.S. twoboosted where did you get those rims and tires at? Did you but them online? If you did, do you have a link to the site?

Trctnless can you explain how to make a custom dual stage better? Like explain where you connect the lines and stuff. Please

 

[twoboosted]

Don't do a burnout on street tires. . Street tires arn't meant for that kind of stuff. When you do a burnout on street tires the rubber that you take off forms into little balls/pebbles of rubber and sticks to your tires which can hurt traction, ALOT.

~Andrew~

P.S. twoboosted where did you get those rims and tires at? Did you but them online? If you did, do you have a link to the site?

For all the fwd guys check out....

http://www.extrememotorsports.com/g1cat/wheels.htm


I'm sure someone can get the slicks cheaper somewhere else but this is were I bought mine. I did not buy the bogarts from them I bought a set of weld racing rims size 13's $250 and bought gorrilla spacer's for 20 bucks w/lug nuts. The package they have is (549.97). One last thing my 60 ft's are w/o an lsd so "I" wouldn't say it's a have to part for good 60 ft's.

 

[GSntncT]

For all the fwd guys check out....

http://www.extrememotorsports.com/g1cat/wheels.htm


I'm sure someone can get the slicks cheaper somewhere else but this is were I bought mine. I did not buy the bogarts from them I bought a set of weld racing rims size 13's $250 and bought gorrilla spacer's for 20 bucks w/lug nuts. The package they have is (549.97). One last thing my 60 ft's are w/o an lsd so "I" wouldn't say it's a have to part for good 60 ft's.

Without an LSD???? My God man, that's insane!!! Even with my Quaife, according to the timeslip list, I have the 2nd worst 60'(pump gas, 10 psi) in all of tuners. :laugh:



Wait a second.........

BTW is that with the slicks, or just the rims/spacers?

 

[boostineklipz]

The best combo for a decent 60 foot time with street tires:

Adjustable shocks : Soft in the front and hard as possible in the rear.
Wider and better tires Stock tires suck so spend some money on some nice tires. 225s will fit on stock rims. I am pretty happy with my G-force tires from BFGoodrich
Lower PSI in Tires : Run like 20-25psi in the front tires
Limited Slip Differential Expensive and I have yet to do this, but every FWD DSMers with some power that I have talked to claims this was one of there best mods. Took alot of the torque steer away.
Dual stage boost controller Less boost in 1st and 2nd gear will result in less spinning of the tires.
Practice Learn where your tires spin the least at what RPM. It takes some time and skill to pull a good 60 foot in a FWD car.

I have pulled 2.1 60 foots with my BFGoodrich G-force, adjustable shocks and 25 psi in the front tires. Too bad I cannot shift into third and Capitol raceway gets so crowded that you can only get two runs a night or otherwise I would have a better time than a crappy 13.9 which I pulled a 2.2 60 foot on. Still FWD is not the optimal preference for drag racing but is great for highway rolls.

 

[GSntncT]

Still FWD is not the optimal preference for drag racing but is great for highway rolls.

you said it man.