how do i make more power with b16g?

[spawn87]

first of all the list of mods are all on my profile.
tuning was done at kbr performance (street tune)

i got the car tuned at 15-16psi and my low and mid range power increase is noticeable.
but when it comes to about 5k and up to redline it still feels slugish and im sure i can make more power especially with the set up i have.

the guy at KBR told me i need to get the following if i want to make more power and it would take care of my top end issue:

afpr
255 walbro pump
bigger spark plug wires. (currently stock 7mm)(is 8mm enough or bigger?)

i want to get the aeromotive kit and the 255 wally but for the wires KBR said to go with NGK but are those 8mm? and with these things installed will my power increase on top end?

 

[tim4g63fast]

I would deffinatly focus on the fuel system like he said, you could do a 255 and fpr stm has a good deal on a fuel lab one and they look good uner the hood. I would go for larger than 560cc injectors, maybe 660 or bigger. then you can throw some fuel and boost at her and wake her up.

I also would get better tuning software but thats just me im not a huge fan of SAFC's its kinda like a bandaid... one that doesnt stick very well.

I have seen plenty of people make more power than I sure you are with stock plug wires but it never hurts to run 8mm wires.

if your looking for even more power beyond that I would look into two different things

is your turbo and exhaust mani ported? if so or after that you could spray water or smurf juice.. that will help you bump up the boost even more.

 

[spawn87]

i want to get link but i dont have the money and since its a dd i cant get keydivers yet. i do want to run 680cc just to have enough but 560 will have to do for the winter... since its a dd i want to just run it on regular 91 pump gas, yes the turbo is fully ported and as for the header im getting an aftermaket one, but sounds like my focus should be on the pump and fpr then .

 

[tim4g63fast]

i want to get link but i dont have the money and since its a dd i cant get keydivers yet. i do want to run 680cc just to have enough but 560 will have to do for the winter... since its a dd i want to just run it on regular 91 pump gas, yes the turbo is fully ported and as for the header im getting an aftermaket one, but sounds like my focus should be on the pump and fpr then .

what manifold do you plan on running? If i were you I wouldnt waste my money on a tube one.. Just get a evoIII or better yet a FP, the FP is only 200 dollars thats a hell of a deal for what it is.

 

[rEclipserGST]

I would suggest buying parts only once. You can save money by NOT buying an AFPR, and just getting a Walbro 190. Those do not need AFPR, our stock one's can handle it. You can do this if your on a budget:

Walbro 190
680cc injectors
KeyDiver

OR

DSMLink
Walbro 190
680 - 780cc injectors

Or just Do It big.

I was on a budget, so I went with something that could push 20 psi and still make good power. Good luck with your build.

 

[deerhunter0881]

I would suggest buying parts only once. You can save money by NOT buying an AFPR, and just getting a Walbro 190. Those do not need AFPR, our stock one's can handle it. You can do this if your on a budget:

Buying parts 2,3,4 times over is the dsm way you can't stop doing that now.

 

[dsm-onster]

Wally 255 and afpr only. And get a used safc. You have a maf that can handle whatever the 16g can throw at it. You can sell your used safc for what you paid for it. Just bump the base fuel pressure to 60psi. Your 560s will flow right at 650cc and you'll have afuel control for it. 2G timing advance will not be bad at all. Thus there's no need to get injectors until you get an eprom, or Link. Then go much bigger than 650cc. The wally 255 can handle 60psi base pressure just fine and max out the injectors at 650cc flow all day long.

I also suggest a cam upgrade. The 4g63 cams are pathetic. Very restrictive. You can get delta HKS-style 272 regrinds for $180. Easy cheap 35-40whp gain. And 16gs like 272s with stock manifolds.

 

[abaum565]

I'm surprised no one has suggested meth injection. With 91 piss gas this might be something to look into along with the fuel upgrades. You could run more timing up top, where you want more power and lean it out a tad. Provided you have the option to change timing.

 

[donniekak]

On my putt around talon, i just swapped in an evo 3, some bigger injectors, a pump, and burnt an eprom for e-85. With stock everything else, except the head and manifolds, the car pulls harder than any 16g car i've been in on pump gas, even my fully tricked out galant. The point is that anywhere e-85 is available it's worth it to get huge injectors, and a big pump before any other mods. Of course you'll need a tuning solution, but learning to tune with e-85 is way safer than 91 octane.

 

[dsm-onster]

Alcohol or water/meth injection means no knock EVER even at 37psi from an hx35/40 hybrid running 132 mph with a full weight car

 

[DNDK]

On my putt around talon, i just swapped in an evo 3, some bigger injectors, a pump, and burnt an eprom for e-85. With stock everything else, except the head and manifolds, the car pulls harder than any 16g car i've been in on pump gas, even my fully tricked out galant. The point is that anywhere e-85 is available it's worth it to get huge injectors, and a big pump before any other mods. Of course you'll need a tuning solution, but learning to tune with e-85 is way safer than 91 octane.

+ 2 E85 is like jungle juice. Stuff is awesome - best thing since Dsmlink.

 

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

^ Lol I meant to post that. Now that my roomate has a Dsm and an account on here, I keep forgetting his account is still logged in half the time I'm browsing threads.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

Get a 190 or even an Evo 8/9 pump for cheap. That with those Evo injectors would be able to handle anything the b16g can dish out on California pump. Then you can move onto something like a set of 264 cams. They will give you enough of an increase to show good power gains over stock cams while retaining a reasonable idle as to not let the local authorities be the wiser. From there, up the boost a little higher and see where it gets you. The 91 here can do at least 18PSI on a smaller turbo. That's pretty much it. If you can somehow manage to afford ECMLink, it just makes it that much easier to tune and make power since then you also have timing control. Have fun

 

[Dsmj89]

650cc injectors
afpr
255 fp
safc or dsmlink

Done.

 

[dsm-onster]

Why get 650s when he can just get the wally 255 and afp and turn his fuel pressure up to make his 560s flow like 650s? What's the point in the $300 spent

 

[Dsmj89]

Why get 650s when he can just get the wally 255 and afp and turn his fuel pressure up to make his 560s flow like 650s? What's the point in the $300 spent

Sorry about that didn't see his profile mods.
Yeah work with your 560's, they'll be just fine with what else i posted above.

 

[dsm-onster]

Ah ok. . .It's not you in particular that I get confused trying to understand than. I see so many upgrading injectors too early when they already have a wall fuel pump. You obviously know that you can bump fuel pressure with a wally 255 and the AFPR you MUST get and make them run like 550s. And so many are running a pump upgrade with AFPR and a 14b. Which a set of 550s can handle well. Yet they waste the money on a set of 550s. . . Or they already slipped up and bought 550s, so they then get 650s instead of just bumping up the fuel pressure. . .

 

[spawn87]

so aftermarket fpr and wally 255 for the win it is...
can you guys explain to me a little more about bumping up the press... i dont get how 560s can pump more cc.

as for the cams im waiting till i start rebuilding my motor.

and as for the mani whats wrong with the tube style? (just want into to help make up mind).

 

[zhjiln]

can you guys explain to me a little more about bumping up the press... i dont get how 560s can pump more cc.

just like a small hole on the bottom of a cup... the size of the hole is constant, but with it half full the water coming out is not as effective
as with that cup fully topped up... with it full of water the water exits that same hole noticeably faster because of the increased weight of the water
with the same hole, same cup, more water volume equals more pressure through the exit hole..

turning up the fuel pressure is doing the same thing... forcing more CC out the injectors ....

 

[viperlp01]

But another thing to think about.. The fuel pressure rises as boost rises.. The fuel pump can only pump a constant amount of fuel and a constant amount of pressure persay.. If you raise the pressure too high the pump needs to keep up with that fuel pressure to keep the tune accurate.. Especially when you get into the higher rpms and at a high fuel pressure the pump wouldn't nessesarily max out of the volume of fuel but on the pressure part.. If you were running a high amount of boost lets say 20 psi that mean the fuel pressure at wot/full boost is going to be 20 psi higher than your base..

What im saying is be careful when you mess with stuff like this.. Fuel injectors are tested at a constant fuel pressure to give you the flow number that they portray.. You don't want to push that too much..

 

[spawn87]

zhjiln that makes perfect sence thanx for the simple explanation... but if i turn up the press and flow higher than 560 wont that just pull more timing?

wich brings me to viperlp01 and his point of the boost rising. i know i wont over flow the pump cause im only runing about 16 psi but i dont want the afc to actually pull more timing and mess something up.

by the way zhjiln what rpm did you launched at when you got that track time cause im really hoping i can pull the same with my set up been how its close to yours

 

[tim4g63fast]

But another thing to think about.. The fuel pressure rises as boost rises.. The fuel pump can only pump a constant amount of fuel and a constant amount of pressure persay.. If you raise the pressure too high the pump needs to keep up with that fuel pressure to keep the tune accurate.. Especially when you get into the higher rpms and at a high fuel pressure the pump wouldn't nessesarily max out of the volume of fuel but on the pressure part.. If you were running a high amount of boost lets say 20 psi that mean the fuel pressure at wot/full boost is going to be 20 psi higher than your base..

What im saying is be careful when you mess with stuff like this.. Fuel injectors are tested at a constant fuel pressure to give you the flow number that they portray.. You don't want to push that too much..

QFT

not to mention when you up the pressure you would work the pump harder or even make the pump run hotter than it does. all this can lead to pump failure which can lead to a really really bad and expensive day

 

[empie1]

Why has no one said cams? Dollar for dollar, my favorite mod I have done so far...next to the turbo.Your only gonna flow as much air as your head will allow.

 

[dsm-onster]

QFT

not to mention when you up the pressure you would work the pump harder or even make the pump run hotter than it does. all this can lead to pump failure which can lead to a really really bad and expensive day

Actually that is wrong. The pump is wide open all the time, hense the fuel return line that puts the fuel back into the gas tank. The FPR meters out the pressure by constricting the flow back to the tank.

And as the charts and real world results have proven (research walbro 255 flow and pressure), the wally at 65psi base pressure and 25+ psi boost (90+ total psi), it still flows enough to out flow 4 X 750s (180LPH). Four 550s at this total pressure only flow 156lph.

 

[FenixTX717]

I just put down some great numbers for a big16g with these mods on my 2g spyder.

Stock motor, DKS 272, DSMLink, 1000cc injectors, Big16G, NGK wires and plugs, wally 255 rewired.

No wideband (which I know I really need it and will be installing one shortly) and no fpr.



The cams were just about $300 brand new and the injectors I got from Steve at AFI. If you're on a budget but want some good parts those cams and delphi injectors are a good bang for the buck IMO.