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horrible clutch engagement after clutch install

Posted by 50trimmed1g, Aug 18, 2008

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  1. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    Please guys, help me out. I start school again tomorrow and I need my car to run. I installed a South Bend TZ series clutch last week. I also put in a flywheel resurfaced to .611 step, new Throw out bearing, New clutch fork and pivot ball. The car ran perfectly after the install for 2 or 3 days. Now I am having disengagement problems. It is really wierd though:
    Here are some senarios to help you guys out>>>
    1. starting the car up, I hold the clutch pedal down, Turn the key and the car starts. I keep holding the clutch down and I can put the car in any gear as long as I don't let go of the clutch pedal. If I let go of the clutch pedal and press it again, I cannot get it in gear unless I push really hard.
    2. If I am in gear driving and I come to a light, I depress the clutch pedal and take the car out of gear. I have to hold the clutch pedal down in order to put it back in gear again. If I release the pedal and then press the clutch pedal again it is very hard to put it in gear.
    3. This has gotton worse for some reason over the past few days. This is how it was a couple of days ago. I could approach a light in gear. stop while holding the clutch down, and let go of the clutch then press it in again and go into gear. As long as there wasn't more than a 3-5 second delay from the time I let the clutch out and pressed it back in.

    If I am looking at the master cylinder rod by the firewall and turn the rod counter clockwise, the pedal will engage a little higher up, but it still feels like it isn't fully disengaging at the bottom of the pedal throw. WHen I force it in gear i can sometimes feel the car lurch forward just a little bit, but once it is in gear it stops moving forward. I know it is weird. I have already bled the system. I also doubt this is 2G Pedal Pump up.
    Please help me out guys. I have had many unanwered questions here on tuners but this one must be answered please.
     
  2. PieEyedPiper

    PieEyedPiper DSM Wiseman

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    Joined Nov 13, 2004
    North Bay Area, California
    Check your master and slave cylinders for leaks.
    The master normally leaks inside the cabin and runs down the firewall and can make a nice mess on your carpet. The rod itself may also be slimy with brake fluid.
    The slave will just appear slimy and the protective boot will fill up with the leaked fluid.
     

    2K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  3. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    Orange County, California
    Thanks for the reply, I've read lots of your posts on clutch problems. The master and the slave are not leaking but they are pretty old. Do you think this could be release problem. Like, could the pressure plate be the problem. Does this sound like a hydraulic problem or an actual problem with components in the bell housing.
     
  4. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    Orange County, California
    Do any of you guys know what this problem could be. ALSO, THe car is very hard to get in gear at idle, but it will go in fine with the car rolling. Even if it is rolling at 2 miles per hour it is still easier to get in gear. Please, any help would be great.
     
  5. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Panama City, Florida
    The master cylinder won't always leak. Mine went bad and didn't have any visual signs. I'd check the slave and master cylinder. Try not to force it in gear if it's hard. I broke a shift rail at the track while trying to get it in gear, which involved me tearing apart my transmission to fix it.
     

    2K  20

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    10.949 @ 129.77 · 2G DSM
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  6. PieEyedPiper

    PieEyedPiper DSM Wiseman

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    Joined Nov 13, 2004
    North Bay Area, California
    Have you bled the system using the buddy system and a vacuum line into a bottle part full of fluid?
    I know you bled it, but maybe you still ended up with air in the lines.

    My situation is actually very similar to yours. I have to bleed once a week for who knows what reason. I suspect runout on the flywheel and worn fulcrum ball.
    But I can't say that would be the case for you.
     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  7. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Worn parts aren't cause for needing to bleed the system. Having a leak or air in the system is.
     

    2K  20

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    10.949 @ 129.77 · 2G DSM
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  8. PieEyedPiper

    PieEyedPiper DSM Wiseman

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    Joined Nov 13, 2004
    North Bay Area, California
    Fear not, I have a reasonably complete understanding of how the hydraulic and clutch systems operate.
    What I was trying to illustrate was that I have a mechanical malfunction that appears to be overloading the hydraulic system, wearing the seals, and eventually I end up bleeding out some nice dark fluid, out of brand new cylinders, that used to be nice new clean synthetic fluid only a few weeks prior. Bleeding the system solves it for short while but before long bleeding alone isn't enough and I need to replace or rebuild the cylinders entirely. This grants me a fair time period before the cycle repeats.

    Sorry O/T, but out of curiosity, had you been to the track this season? Your avatar always stands out to me.

    How is the clutch rod adjusted? It might be possible that you just need to set it properly to get some good disengagement.

    EDIT: saw info original post, should still try playing around with the adjustment - just to rule it out.
     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  9. ->PrOjEcTGS<-

    ->PrOjEcTGS<- Proven Member

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  10. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    I've bled it 4-5 times using the vac line in bottle method. I put a new fulcrum ball and shift fork at time of clutch install. The car was working fine for the first 2-3 days after the install. I am starting to suspect a problem with the pressure plate.
     
  11. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    I tried to adjust the rod all the way out, all the way in and it does nothing but raise the point at which engagement begins. Even adjusted all the way out I still can't get to the point of the 2g pedal pump up. It just won't adjust that far I guess??? Oh, by O/T did you mean me. Or the guy above doing the burnout. If me, Yes I have been to irwindale and cal speedway but I never pass inspection and never get to run :)
     
  12. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    On a side note. Yesterday I had my dad push the clutch fork as hard as he could to the passenger side of the car while I tried to put the car in gear. The car still had trouble shifting into gear. Would that rule out a hydraulic problem?? I was reading a post by a fellow member who had a similar problem to mine and 2 of the pressure plate straps had broke. Could this be my problem also????
     
  13. ->PrOjEcTGS<-

    ->PrOjEcTGS<- Proven Member

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    At what point does your clutch seem to disengage right now? Is is higher up than 1/2 way down or is it lower than 1/2 way down? I'm not sure if you read through that page I linked to but. When you machined the flywheel you took material off and thus made the clutch assembly further away from the throw out bearing. That alone will lower your engagement point considerably. Therefore you need to make up that difference by shimming the clutch ball. Until you do that you are still going to have problems with your engagement. Read over this page: Shimming Clutch Pivot Ball

    Also, if you are seriously suspecting a botched pressure plate, you can shim it while your are in there checking the pressure plate out.

    I have seen this on multiple occasions and I have found that this is the most common problem with people's disengagement problems when installing a new clutch.
     
  14. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    Today I put my old 2100 pressure plate on with a new act 6 puck sprung disc. I also Put a 1mm washer under the pivot ball The car engages and disengages perfectly. I was just hoping now that I am not preloading the pressure plate. How can I tell if I am preloading the pressure plate or not.
     
  15. ->PrOjEcTGS<-

    ->PrOjEcTGS<- Proven Member

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    Since the slave cylinder will put light pressure on TOB to keep it at the pressure plate. If you can push the clutch fork towards the driver's side with your hand which will compress the slave cylinder you should have nothing to worry about. Also is your clutch fork in the middle of the opening like seen in this picture:
    View attachment 86669

    If it is in the center you have nothing to worry about if it is closer to the driver's side it will engage closer to the top of the pedal travel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
  16. 50trimmed1g

    50trimmed1g Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 25, 2007
    Orange County, California
    Yeah, I can push the slave towards the driver side but not really towards the passenger side. Everything is going good with the new clutch. Good old ACT has never let me down. I will try to recommend you for some rep points man. Thank you for all of your help!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014

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