Holset HX35 on my SR20.....

[SR20drag]

I have been reading threads on here for 3 weeks and would like to post on the holset tech threads so I am hoping for some luv from the DSM world. This is by far the most informative site on holset setups on gas engines.

My first question is how do you think my built SR will spool the HX35 with the stock 12cm2 housing. Should I go ahead and get the BEP .70 ar T3 housing or roll with stock. I have a fully built SR20 with 8.5-1 compression and tomie 270 procams. I am running stock HLA's and rev limiting at 7800rpm. I am hoping for 450-500whp in my 2500lb S13. I have a 4.36 skyline rear and I've been cutting consistant 1.5-1.6 60' for over a year on 26x8.5 MT wrinkle walls. I'm runnig 11.7 1/4's with 350whp so I will break into the 10's if I reach my WHP goal for sure. Any insight on the Holset turbo will be great. Please don't flame me for driving a nissan. It could be worse!!!

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[JusMX141]

I would expect the 12cm2 Holset housing to be rather lazy for your setup. Keep in mind that specific turbine housing was designed for cold Diesel exhaust coming from an engine with nearly three times the displacement and twice the compression ratio of your car.

I'm sure you want to stay with a T3-flanged turbine housing, so I'd recommend the .55 a/r Bullseye housing if the car sees alot of street use, and the .70 a/r housing if it's more of a drag-only application. You WILL get to your HP goal with the .55 housing, although the housing's outlet will be cast to accept a DSM o2 housing so you may need to be creative.

Tim's Turbos - Turbo Rebuilding - Steel Turbine Housing - T3 Inlet

 

[caged]

Im going the same turbo on my 2L wrx with the 12cm housing. There is a fair bit of info on Homemadeturbo.com they are putting hc1's on single cam 1.6's.

 

[dsm-onster]

The stock housing with a non-divided runner manifold will spool to 20+ psi by 4K or so. At least for the mitsu 2.0L 4g63. I expect the 4valve sr20 to do about the same. Cold exhaust gases put out less energy and diesels need to see full boost at low rpms (low piston speed thus low volume flow per second)so it would be expected that a stock holset housing with it's matching wheel would spool incredibly fast for it's size if you use the housing properly, twinscroll with divided runner manifold. If you use the divided runner manifold, know that exhaust gases are pulsed and each pulse will see a turbine scroll the size of our stock 14b turbine housing scroll (6cm^2), or something close to a garrett .48 a/r turbine housing scroll. GREAT for spool speed. Not great to extract the most from a later hx35 which has the 7 blade compressor that flows as much as the 60-1/FPred.

BTW was you KA24 blown? Or did you do the swap because you just wanted the sr20 motor. There's now a substancial KA market for turbo upgrades. Either way, nice engine bay

 

[SR20drag]

I have been reading the holset tech threads for 3 weeks and I must say I have gotten the majority of my useful info from you and morphius. I am going with a non divided T3 mani. I was considering a cheap treadstone log mani but I've decided to go with a peak boost tubular for the extra $500 and do it right the first time. I am trying to decide between staying with the stock 12cm2 housing on the undivided mani or going with the BEP .70ar with the 3inch v band from theturbotrader. I am staying with my JWT rom tune and 72lbs injectors for now and should hit 100% duty cycle by 450-475whp. Do you think I can max out my tune with the stock housing at around 28-30psi? If so I will wait and add the BEP .70ar housing when I go stand alone with 1000cc injectors. My GT2871R 52trim .86ar wasn't hitting 20psi until about 4400rpm. I have a lower 4.36 R&P and drag race most the time anyway so I'm not to worried about spool up, as long as it comes on line by 5000rpm and pulls all the way to my 7800rpm rev limit. With 8.5-1 compression and tomie 270 procams with the tubular mani do you think my goals are acheivable with the stock housing or should I go with the BEP .70ar on the undivided mani?

As for my choice of the SR over the KA. The KA's have to be built to handle the kind of power I wanted so I went with the higher revving SR thinking it would be the best choice. If I had it to do over I would have stayed with the KA since I had the internals built on the SR anyway. If you want a 400whp stock bottom end nissan go with the SR. From my experience with nissans, If you want more than that you will have to build the internals on either motor and a built KA is a better drag motor than a built SR. So to answer your question, if your building either motor for high boost you might as well stick with the 2.4L.

Thanx for the props on the bay

 

[dsm-onster]

That's what I was thinking about the KA too. I have a little experience boosting an 89 KA 240sx hatch and using live edit (since the 89-90s are eprom).

It seams that the .70 a/r BEP housing flows about as much as the stock 12cm^2 holset housing when coupled to a non-divided manifold. I doubt you will get any improvement going to the BEP housing. The .70 a/r bep housing is good for other turbo options like the hx40 that comes with a larger turbine housing stock, or other brands. I do recommend radiusing the divider and portmatching the inlet holes to a t3 garrett flange hole. The bolt pattern is the same, but the hole shape is a bit different between a garrett and a holset.

I was shocked that gt2871r (same turbine as the disco potato) spooled so late with your setup, until I reread that you had the .86 a/r housing. What are the durations at 0.05" lift for the tomie 270 procams? I've never been able to find a picture of some one's cam card or anything like that from Tomei.

 

[SR20drag]

What are the durations at 0.05" lift for the tomie 270 procams? I've never been able to find a picture of some one's cam card or anything like that from Tomei.

I don't know the answer to that one. They are 12.5mm of lift and I have only had them for about 3 months. I used BC springs and replaced the stock HLA's and rockers for even wear with the new spring rate. I am very pleased with the performance. I should see even better top end with the holset and the tial gate. My flapper was starting to blow open with my 7psi WG actuator above 21psi. It wouldn't hold past about 18psi at the end of the 1/4.

So do you think I can max out my injectors with the 12cm2 housing? Would you suggest methanol injection or just race fuel for high boost on the holset with the 72lbs injectors?

 

[dsm-onster]

72lb injectors are 750s. It depends on the hx35 you have. I am more familiar with what typical BSFC numbers are like with a 4g63 with various upgrades. But assuming the sr20 is close to the 4g63, you will have enough injector to push the 8blade hx35 close to the edge of the map (60% efficiency). But there is still a distinct possibility your injectors won't max it out, depending on how well your setup (VE, type of fuel used). 750s with 50psi base fuel pressure should do it. I would raise the fuel pressure at least. Best thing would be to run 850s. I don't know how you're fuel pump will react to high boost plus high base fuel pressure.

But you can definately meet your goal with 72lb injectors (450-500whp).

If you have a 7blade hx35, plan on 1000cc injectors (95lb) if you want to push it to it's limit. As it flows 60lb/min and can put you up to 75whp over the top end of your goal.

I definately would look at water/alky injection. There's some gains using straight fuel with high octane as opposed to modifying the effective octane in the combustion chamber, so it's up to you. You can drive your car around more affordably at a high level of performance with injection. I recommend a water alky mix. Straight alky will cool aircharge, but doesn't do what you want it to in the combustion chamber-- raise octane-- unless you you VERY VERY much. This can be used to suppliment a fuel system with inadequate flow, but I'd rather have the right amount of flow and use the meth in a mix to cool the charge, and water in a mix to slow the burn rate (raise the effective octane). Then driving on the streets is as easy as dumping in winter mix wiper fluid.

 

[SR20drag]

I have the 7 blade HX35 and will be going with the labonte sport water/meth kit I guess. I should be able to break into the 10's with 450whp on water/meth injection. My car weighs 2550(no driver) and ran 11.7 with 350whp with a 1.6 60'. I think I am going to stick with the 12cm2 housing until I go 1000cc injectors and new tune. Any suggestions on stand alone ? Most SR guys I know run power FC Djetro with the map sensor.

 

[dsm-onster]

Wow, I have no clue what the best stand alone for your platform would be. You can take a look at haltech and megasquirt. . . Mega squirt is much more affordable.

I don't recommend the bep housing over the 12cm^2 housing for any HP level with an hx35. Don't bother. They both flow about the same, about the same spool speed, and takes about the same cash amount to install (both have vband outlets). There's no advantage of one over the other at any hp level.

You definately should be able to achieve your goal with the 12cm^2 hx35 with an open header design. Keep us updated. You have a 4-valve 2.0L motor like us DSM guys. What boost did the gt28 need to show for you to achieve your most recent hp and track numbers?

 

[SR20drag]

I made 345whp and 350tq on a dynojet at 20psi on 93 octane with stock cams and my current tune. I would say I gained another 20+whp with the cams, but I never had it on the dyno. I took it to the track 1 time in November and it was 27 degrees outside and the clouds never broke to heat the track up. I still ran a 11.8@118 with a 1.85 60' spinning through most of 1st gear. Still beat a stock 08 Z06.

I got my tutbo in from ups today and it had been dropped and the compressor inlet is slightly bent. It should be fine but I'm going to try and get insurance on it anyway. Outside of that it's in excellent shape internally. I have one small problem, the turbine outlet is 5 bolt straight into a 2.5" dodge downpipe with no v band. Not what I was expecting but I will just have to build or buy a flange for the 5 bolt and make my own downpipe. I will post some pictures tomorrow because I have a couple of questions about my custom downpipe and disassembly. I need to clock the compressor and remove the turbine to machine the inlet out to a T3, among other things.

Thanx for all your help.

 

[dsm-onster]

What boost did the gt28 need to achieve that?

Remeber, the holset 5bolt outlet is not the same as a garrett. So you can't just use a garrett 5bolt outlet flange and go. This will work.

 

[SR20drag]

20psi on 93 octane with stock cams and my current tune. Nice 2600lbs street car that will hange with any production car in the world for abour $8000. I can't complain. Thanx for the link. I was considering building the exact same thing but my time is worth more than $25.

Here's some pics of my turbo. I am going to straighten the inlet and get insurance from UPS so I will end up with a Free turbo + about $50.

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[dsm-onster]

Gotta love the s13 platform for the price and what you get out of it if you can do it right!

If you like the "whistle" take out that silencer ring on the compressor inlet .

 

[SR20drag]

I am considering staying with the internal gate on my HX35 for cost savings until I get a stand alone and bigger injectors. I should max out my tune with less than 25psi of boost. The stock WG actuator on a 2001 dodge truck is 20-23psi, I'm not sure which one. Do you think I will be ok staying with the stock actuator and internal gate or go ahead and weld it up and go with the 38mm tial?

 

[SR20drag]

With water/alky injection and my 72lbs injectors, how much boost do you think I'll need to max out my tune at 450whp. I've got a wideband and a 1bar spring in my 38mm gate. I'm thinking the HX35 will make about the same power at 15psi as my GT2871R did at 20. Is this wishful thinking???

 

[dsm-onster]

I don't think that is unrealistic. You'll have to find out!

I am considering staying with the internal gate on my HX35 for cost savings until I get a stand alone and bigger injectors. I should max out my tune with less than 25psi of boost. The stock WG actuator on a 2001 dodge truck is 20-23psi, I'm not sure which one. Do you think I will be ok staying with the stock actuator and internal gate or go ahead and weld it up and go with the 38mm tial?

The stock wastegate is designed for cold, slow, bumbling diesel exhaust. It won't flow enough for a 4g63 gasser to keep it down to 20-23 psi. One user here experimented and found that it wouldn't keep boost under 30psi. I would suspect similar results for you. I would port the wastegate passage and use a larger flapper in the least. You may have to use an actuator with a weaker spring.

 

[SR20drag]

I got a 38mm tial with a 1 bar spring but I also got a treadstone log mani for now. I couldn't swing the $900 for the tubular peak boost I want. I know the log will be my bottle neck and I will need a little more boost to reach my goal but I still think it can be done. I just can't wait to get it up and running. I should have it on the dyno sometime in early March. I'm sure I'll make a few passes with the log mani and 72lbs injectors and then go tubular mani and 96lbs JWT lightning tune and a reflash Jim Wolf Technology website

How much CFM does stock 4g63 heads flow? Trying to compare them to the SR. I know the SR is not known for good flow on stock heads, about 220cfm. I would guess about 10+ whp per lb/min of air flow from either engine?

 

[dsm-onster]

That's ABOUT right. A good rule of thumb has been 10.5 hp per lb/min for tis community. Though many are seeing much more than that. See Curt Brown and others.

 

[SR20drag]

How do you like the knock off external gate? Do you think the 2 1/2 inch down pipe is big enough for my HX35. A 3" will be a very tight fit on my setup.

One more question.... I got he mild steel plate from ebay for my down pipe with a 8mm set screw to hold the wastgate shut. I'm having second thoughts about it. Should I weld it up or will the set screw work??? This is what I have.... eBay Motors: Holset turbo flange waste gate block off HX35 TIAL HKS (item 300286831791 end time Jan-13-09 19:37:29 PST)

 

[turboglenn]

Wow, I have no clue what the best stand alone for your platform would be. You can take a look at haltech and megasquirt. . . Mega squirt is much more affordable.

I don't recommend the bep housing over the 12cm^2 housing for any HP level with an hx35. Don't bother. They both flow about the same, about the same spool speed, and takes about the same cash amount to install (both have vband outlets). There's no advantage of one over the other at any hp level.

You definately should be able to achieve your goal with the 12cm^2 hx35 with an open header design. Keep us updated. You have a 4-valve 2.0L motor like us DSM guys. What boost did the gt28 need to show for you to achieve your most recent hp and track numbers?

I would think the sr20 should spool faster than our 4g63 motors.. i've always considered the 4g63 "lazy" when it comes to exhaust velocity, and from the fe Sr20 turbo motors i've done i can say i am very impressed with them , and i LOVE having a timing CHAIN instead of a damned belt

on the management, good info.. Go haltech.. their main US office is right there in kentucky and i can send you all my dealer install PDF's to make the install and first getting ti started a breeze. Eventhough I'm a haltech dealer, by forum policy i cannot promote a sale on here (unless it was somethign i just had as a spare), but i can tell you to chekc out our home office in KY while you're there. Talk to Eric Gash or Claudio. both very nice nad very helpfull.

And if you go MS i still have the info on your triggers and sensors to help with the install, just PM me

EDIT: IF UPS actually compensates you for the damage.. GO BUY A LOTTO TICKET!! they have more excuses than a drug addict avoiding getting on a buss to rehab when it comes to showing how the damage was your fault and nto theirs.. for years i managed a shipping dept at and autp parts supply house and UPS absolutely blws donkey d1ck when it comes to facing up and paying for damages.

 

[dsm-onster]

Hmm, he's spooling the gt2871r turbo VERY late then. The 4g63 can spool the gt30r by 4K:

My GT2871R 52trim .86ar wasn't hitting 20psi until about 4400rpm. I have a lower 4.36 R&P and drag race most the time anyway so I'm not to worried about spool up, as long as it comes on line by 5000rpm and pulls all the way to my 7800rpm rev limit. With 8.5-1 compression and tomie 270 procams with the tubular mani do you think my goals are acheivable with the stock housing or should I go with the BEP .70ar on the undivided mani?

Maybe the tomei 270s offer much more duration than other cams in that range of advertized duration?

SR20drag, I don't see anything wrong with that flange. It looks pretty innovative. I don't see a problem with as set screw holding a wastegate shut.

 

[toofast82]

I would think the SR20 would spool the holset pretty similar to what 4g63 does with similar mods(compression,cams,etc)
It looks like the gt2871 just misses your goals and if it does with the big a/r, you will pushing it to the limit, It appears to be 45lb/min capable though
While the 7blade hx35 has more than enough to meet your goals(60lb/min)
Ive always liked the sr20 240s, they are very light, rear wheel drive is fun as hell, and sr20 is very durable and great power platform. If i ever got out of dsms i would do either the 240sx or 1jz/2jz lexus swap

 

[SR20drag]

Thanx for all the help, I have to say that DSM guys are much more friendly then the SR guys on NICO. I got my flange in today and it works great. Everything lines up strait and the 8mm stud hits dead center of the WG flapper.

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I have the compressor off and would like some advice on removing and clocking the turbine housing? I have seen people saying it can be a pain. Using PB blaster, rubber mallet, and even a chisel. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

By the way, UPS said NO to the insurance claim even though I never signed for the package, they just dropped it(literally) at the door, WTF??

 

[SR20drag]

Hmm, he's spooling the gt2871r turbo VERY late then. The 4g63 can spool the gt30r by 4K:

With the .86 ar housing the GT2871 spools 600rpm later than the .63 ar but it supposedly makes 30-40 more whp. I have a 4.36 skyline R&P compared to stock 4.08. It makes up for the difference. I run 1.6 60 ft and mph 93 in the 1/8th and 118 in the 1/4! I'm thinking 125mph traps and low low 11's with the HX35. I don't think it will see 10's until I retune with bigger injectors.