HKS Cams Installed!!!

[L2RTSiAWD]

I will try that when I log on the way home.

Later,

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Originally posted by Black95GSX


For the record... 1.7 bar (about 25psi) on 18 degrees of timing = no knock .... if you want to try more timing then that on that much boost, feel free to.... but I suggest buying a spare motor.

I don't get how 18 degrees would give you knock in your "setup" -- the less timing you run, the less prone you are to knock. That's the point of the knock sensor pulling timing. When you get knock, it pulls timing to prevent knock.

I have no knock when I run 24 psi at 23-25 degrees total advance. That includes 3 degrees added by advancing base timing from 5 to 8. The ecu alsways asumes 5.

18 degrees doesnt give me knock. What I'm saying is if I had timing that low, it means I am getting knock. The low timing is the result, not the cause. I add a little fuel, timing comes back up. I dont have the ability to set timing at 18 (dsmlink), I can only tune for the best timing the ECU wil give me, which is more than 18. I'm not really sure why this is so hard to get across, perhaps because you have been tuning with the DSMlink for a while. I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I appreciate the discussion.

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer


I have no knock when I run 24 psi at 23-25 degrees total advance. That includes 3 degrees added by advancing base timing from 5 to 8. The ecu alsways asumes 5.

18 degrees doesnt give me knock. What I'm saying is if I had timing that low, it means I am getting knock. The low timing is the result, not the cause. I add a little fuel, timing comes back up. I dont have the ability to set timing at 18 (dsmlink), I can only tune for the best timing the ECU wil give me, which is more than 18. I'm not really sure why this is so hard to get across, perhaps because you have been tuning with the DSMlink for a while. I hope I'm not offending anyone, but I appreciate the discussion.

The problem is... the 95 ECU is not capable of advancing timing that far, unless you have removed honey combs (do you?)...... My pouint is that if you lean the hell out of the car (which I've done).... I don't see how you are getting that much timing.... what gear are you seeing that advance in? What tool are you useing to monitor the timing advance (I know some show timing as a whole, which is what i'm wondering if your tool is doing)...... etc.

As far as the dsmlink goes.. you don't "set" or lock your timing to 18... you watch what your base curve is, and then add accordinly to get the timing you desire.


And for the record, I've only had the DSMLink for about 3 months now.... had an AFC for 2 years prior. Hence why I'm having trouble understanding how you got that much timing out of a 95 ecu.

I had 660s with my 16g (back in the day) and the most I ever saw was 22 degrees of advance when I was running very little boost and running super rich.

 

[Black95GSX]

Just thought of something... what are the air temps/humidity/and elevation when your getting that kind of advance?

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by 95GSXracer


I have no knock when I run 24 psi at 23-25 degrees total advance. That includes 3 degrees added by advancing base timing from 5 to 8. The ecu alsways asumes 5.

Sorry to reply in soo manyposts... but I just realized you have a 14b...


I'm curious as to how your getting so much advance, while pushing out so much air out of the 14b.

I'm not knocking the 14b, but 24-25psi is way out of that turbo's efficency range, so your going to be putting out some pretty hot air. I'm guessing you either have a hell of an Intercooler system setup (perhaps something spraying on it to cool it down?) or are running a 50shot or larger of nitrous to compensate for the extreme heat coming from the 14b.


Was just curious how you managed to pull 24psi with an effective 23-33 degrees of timing (base + advanced) without blowing the hell out of your motor.

 

[marshall]

running super rich on the afc will hurt timing advance. more fuel (higher hz seen by ecu) means less timing. pull some of that fuel out and watch your timing go up.

marshall

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by marshall
running super rich on the afc will hurt timing advance. more fuel (higher hz seen by ecu) means less timing. pull some of that fuel out and watch your timing go up.

marshall

Yes and no..... when you start to run too lean, the ecu won't pull timing, but it can and will (atleast in my elevation) slow down timing advance.......


just what i noticed in my many nights of tuning my 16g at WOT in 3rd in the middle of no-where

 

[Kevin Jewer]

When I ran 12.8 at 106, I was on stock injectors, fuel pump, SMIC, and unmodified MAS. That was at 22 psi. Now with a Supra SMIC, I run 24 psi and see that 22-23 degrees advance. At 18-19 psi on pump gas I get up to and somtimes just over 25 degrees. The logger shows 22-24 at the ECU, plus 3 added to the base. Now I do get better timing now with the 1g motor (stock 1g compression) than I got with the 95 motors. Same ECU though. I have the AFC leaned out to compensate for the 550s, but that just puts it back to all 0s. So I dont see any additional advance from that. The baro wire mod put me at +35% airflow at the AFC on the 450s. By using the AFC to correct (+35%) there was no impact to timing. I.E. there was no percieveable increase in timing from the baro wire mod. I know everyone says that it increases timing and blows motors, but thats for boneheads without AFC to compensate Now as far as how far the 95 ECU can advance timing, I have seen 24 or 25, not sure which, with 95 ECU and 92 motor. The additional timing comes from advanced base timing (ECU assumes 5*). When I ran the 106 last year (95 compression), I was only getting about 20 degrees total. This year I got it up to around 23 degrees and ran 108 at the same boost presure, same fuel, same weather. With the adition of the SUpra TT SMIC, I ran 109 at 1-2 psi higher boost, which is appropriate for a 3300 pound car. Now oddly enough running the small 16g with 6cm housing from the 14b only gained me 1 mph for a best of 110.5 and a few 12.6s. I'm hoping the 7cm housing wil let me run a little cooler wednesday and run more appropriate times for a 16g. Then I have to give it back Unfortunately my 14b compressor wheel ate something, so no more experimenting with that.

I race mostly at New Engalnd Dragway in NH. Not sure of the elevation there.

 

[Black95GSX]

The thing about the ecu assuming 5 degrees... that isn't factored in when you figure spark advance... that's base timing.

What system are you useing to log your spark advance?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Well I leaned out 2 points at 4.5k 5k,6k,and 7k and they car pulled even harder I also set my high at 80% but I haven't run with that yet.

Later,

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I use the pocket logger. It gives me timing at the ECU. The ECU assumes that I have 5 degrees base advance. Since I have a 1g Cam Angle Sensor (for 1gina2g swap) I can advance timing without the ECU knowing. For example, I read timing on the pocketlogger while advancing the cam angle sensor. It always says 5. But the timing light on the crank shows what it really is. So if I set base to 10 degrees there is 5 more than the ECU knows about, or the pocketlogger shows. The ECU will still pull it back just the same if there is knock though. For instance. When I first hooked up the CAS I was getting 18 degrees advance at the top of third. That means I was getting knock. I advanced tiing with the CAS by 3, and the ECU only gave 15 degrees advance. So it pulled out those 3 degrees I added. But if the tuning is right, the extra timing really pays off.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Well I did a log and the timing is a little lower with it leaned out but EGT's are still good and the car pulls even harder so I'm not complaining. I'm still at 1.0 volts at 6800-7000 so I;m going to lean more out there and see what happens.

Later,

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by MuttedTSiAWD
Well I did a log and the timing is a little lower with it leaned out but EGT's are still good and the car pulls even harder so I'm not complaining. I'm still at 1.0 volts at 6800-7000 so I;m going to lean more out there and see what happens.

Later,

What kind of EGTs are you seeing?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

800-820 I might turn up the boost instead of leaning the AFC more. Not sure on that one.

Later,

 

[Z1500]

Yes, more boost. Boost is your friend.

Kevin
www.agpturbo.com

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I'm already at 18 on my 2G stock bottom end. I'm scared to snap a rod. I might try just going up to an even 20 psi.

Later,

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by MuttedTSiAWD
I'm already at 18 on my 2G stock bottom end. I'm scared to snap a rod. I might try just going up to an even 20 psi.

Later,

:laugh:

I ran 25psi on a stock 2g motor I wouldn't worry about 20 snapping a rod unless it's due to tuning issues (detonation = boom)


Although, I would not suggest any more then 18psi on a stock SMIC.... get a fmic before going further. (IMO)


(By the way... why the heck is it only letting me do one "smiles" per post... that sucks)

 

[InferiorWang]

umm...you did two in the last post

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Uh...I have a apex'i GTR Core FMIC.

Later,

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by InferiorWang
umm...you did two in the last post

DOH!!!! good point

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by MuttedTSiAWD
Uh...I have a apex'i GTR Core FMIC.

Later,

Ahh, didn't remember that you had a FMIC.....


go for 20psi then

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

OK fine you convinced me to go 20psi. I'll richen it back up at least a point to be safe.

Later,

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by MuttedTSiAWD
OK fine you convinced me to go 20psi. I'll richen it back up at least a point to be safe.

Later,

Trust me, don't richen it further..... just add 2 psi... you'll be holding yourself back with paranoia otherwise


I've been there, I know what it's like to finally hit 20psi on pump gas, although for the record, I tend to run 15-18 on pump in city, and 22-25 at the track (typically 1.7x BAR).



Get some race gas in her, crank the boost to atleast 23psi and have fun smoking all 4 tires!

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Oh sure tell me to run 20 psi on the street and you don't even do that.

Later,

 

[Black95GSX]

Originally posted by MuttedTSiAWD
Oh sure tell me to run 20 psi on the street and you don't even do that.

Later,

Main reason I don't run 20psi on the street is that the car developed the habit of spinning the tires..... not a bad thing, but also not good

Hell, I rarely if ever boost in city right now, due to the external wastegate venting to atmos. w/o a muffler..... that damned thing is loud!!!


Although, that should all change in a week or so.. with a muffler on the external, I'm going to be much happier.
1... cops won't notice my car as much
2... I'll be able to hear my T3/T4 spool... god I love that sound