*HELP* Random sputtering, bucking..

[Blitzeclips]

Okay guys, I've run into a serious issue with my car. Sorry, this will be long, I want to include everything I can for the best diasnoses of my problem.

Heres the deal: The past 3 weeks everything has been running %100 fine, and I haven't gone past 8 psi on the boost yet. Just flushed the coolant system last week. I've RARELY gotten to 8psi to begin with, because I'm no speed demon flying everywhere. So there hasn't been motor abuse to begin with... Now, today, I stopped to put $15 of gas into my car. About 10 miles of highway driving later, I noticed the car was beginning to have a heavy idle when I applied gas after a green light (from a stop). So from then on, everything was primarily fine. On the way home I noticed the same thing again, it is primarily happening under boost. It's almost like a gargling of exhaust gases, or stuttering/bucking with ANY amount of throttle. As I'll leave the throttle on, the bucking and sputtering SLOWLY faded, and became a smooth and easy RPM gain..

So I went straight home and popped the hood while timing the turbo (car still idling in Netral) and give it some gas. We hear almost like a small rattling around 2.5-3000RPM range, and theres smoke coming from around the exhaust housing each rev we give. So, we took it for another drive to have a buddy see what's going on, and the car ran FINE for 4/5 boost builds. Everything seemed completely fine, which confused the hell out of us. So the final road we went down was where it happened again... Sputter/bucking again, around where the boost builds.... Almost sounds like the a motor flooded with fuel yet still gargling...

We get home again. Check all the lines, etc... nothing loose, no leaks showing, etc..
There was in fact oil come from the line by my coilpack( passenger side) leading to my intake manifold. It's a black hose going directly to it. There were signs of oil coming from around the tube, yet light oil, not soaked or flowing..

We figured it may be misfire.. So we pulled the plugs and they looked like SHIT. White tips with some build up. Which isn't good, because we've come to find out they haven't been changed in almost 2 years. That's fine, bingo, may be our problem here. Put new plugs in, set the gap to .030 versus .035, and took er for a drive. First turn down the road, SAME SPUTTERING AND GARGLING again. Wasn't the fix... The sputtering is consistent no matter how much throttle or gas is given, whether it's 2000RPMs or 5000RPMS, it still sounds the same.


At this point, I'm lost. I'm trying to figure out what it COULD be, and heres what I've come up with:

* Sounds like signs of pre-detonation due to water in feul or lines.
* Possible timing issue. But doubt it, the gear and timing have been set at zero for 18 months with no problems.
* Vaccuum leak somewhere yet not found. Maybe intake gasket or turbo filter without sealed connection.
* Map sensor being thrown off somehow.
* ECU taking a shit on me.
* Overload of feul, or not enough feul (white plug tips)
* Bad gas pumped from earlier in the day
* Return line : Sits at 45 degree angle versus 90 degree. Possible oil build up in seal?

Although I DONT see myself doing this, but maybe accidentally putting in non-premium gas, thus resulting in the recent behavior. Would this happen if there were no premium in the car?

For now the car is down because I am not destroying my built block because of this. If the motor can't handle 8psi , theres no way I'm going past 8spi and I'm selling it. I do realize the timing is advanced to some extent under boost, but cmon now, 8 psi?

Sunday I am free to get my hands dirty and check over many things. So far, all I can think of doing is :

* Checking the ohms of my ECU
* Running ISOLEET through gas tank, or possibly draining it altogether and re-filling with premium.
* Looking for belt jump or tooth/teeth missing from gears.
* Checking return line for oil back up, and replaced 45 degree angle with 90 degree fitting...
* Starting car and sparying brake cleaner around intake MF for possible gasket leaks, etc..


At idle and while driving the cockpit smells like exhaust gases/oil too. I don't have a CAT, it's just a straight pipe, so I'm assuming this is why. Not sure though. At this point I have no idea what this could be. But I cannot drive my car until it's fixed. If anyone can help or give me and idea of possible solutions, PLEASE do so. I am tired of these little problems, yet this one could be serious. I'm afraid of pre-detonation actually, or throwing a rod, starving the motor, etc...

Thanks is advance, and sorry for the long post.

 

[92awddsm]

Tighten your manifold to turbo bolts. That is where the noise and exhaust smell is coming from.

Drain the watered down gas you got right before the problems started. Put in 2 gallons of fresh fuel and see if the bucking went away.

And you are tuboed, do the same boost leak test that we do on the 4g63t.
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/ICtester.html

 

[4UH8ERS]

Tighten your manifold to turbo bolts. That is where the noise and exhaust smell is coming from.

Thats what i was guessing. I would also check the bolts and gasket from the exhaust housing to the downpipe as well.

That hose by your coilpack is where your PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) valve is. You can get a catch can if you would like and solve that problem.

BTW: when boosting be safe and don't run anything lower than 93octane.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Yeah, I'm going to give that a try when I can.

I dont know guys, I don't feel good at all about this one. I have a sick feeling in my stomach.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Okay well I've got some more wierd new for you all.

Last week as I left work I started my car and proceeded to turn on my headlights. At that instant, I smell a burning of plastic/rubber, and saw smoke from under my steering column...

So I freak out and pull apart the lower dash in the middle of this lot, and check out some things. Well, my dimmer switch/rheostat COMPLETELY burned up on me. Now, this was the first time I had driven the car in the night after my turbo install. Which baffled me, because I couldnt see why this would be happening.

So I have no cluster lights, but my gauiges zare lighting up fine. Also, my check engine light brightens up still, yet everything else doesnt?

My gauge reading the amoutn of feul in my tank also took a dump on me. So I cannot see how much gas I have left at all. It just sits below the low.

I ordered a new rheostat and hooked it up last night. INSTANTLY I smelled the same thing, looked down, and the internal wires in the plastic housing were GLOWING red, and I burnt up another $40 item in less then 2 seconds.

I am getting fed up with this shit. I am actually starting to think that maybe I crossed wire when installing the feul pump, but I cannot see how. Maybe the rehostat reading my feul amounts started reading the actual feul pump, and my feul pump is reading from my rheostat? Or vise versa? I am thinking this may have something to do with my sputtering and white plugs... But I'm not sure.

This is getting rediculous. From breaking down and smoke pouring out of my hood in the middle of campus/main street, to this dumb-ass burn up with the rheostat and SPUTTERING. If I knew my car would become this shitty and unreliable, I would have never even started this shit. I'm afriad to take/drive the car anywhere because of these things. Which sucks, because I used to love it.

If anyone has ideas or can help, please do so ASAP. I NEED HELP before I sell this car.

 

[-noble69-]

Okay well I've got some more wierd new for you all.

Last week as I left work I started my car and proceeded to turn on my headlights. At that instant, I smell a burning of plastic/rubber, and saw smoke from under my steering column...

So I freak out and pull apart the lower dash in the middle of this lot, and check out some things. Well, my dimmer switch/rheostat COMPLETELY burned up on me. Now, this was the first time I had driven the car in the night after my turbo install. Which baffled me, because I couldnt see why this would be happening.

So I have no cluster lights, but my gauiges zare lighting up fine. Also, my check engine light brightens up still, yet everything else doesnt?

My gauge reading the amoutn of feul in my tank also took a dump on me. So I cannot see how much gas I have left at all. It just sits below the low.

I ordered a new rheostat and hooked it up last night. INSTANTLY I smelled the same thing, looked down, and the internal wires in the plastic housing were GLOWING red, and I burnt up another $40 item in less then 2 seconds.

I am getting fed up with this shit. I am actually starting to think that maybe I crossed wire when installing the feul pump, but I cannot see how. Maybe the rehostat reading my feul amounts started reading the actual feul pump, and my feul pump is reading from my rheostat? Or vise versa? I am thinking this may have something to do with my sputtering and white plugs... But I'm not sure.

This is getting rediculous. From breaking down and smoke pouring out of my hood in the middle of campus/main street, to this dumb-ass burn up with the rheostat and SPUTTERING. If I knew my car would become this shitty and unreliable, I would have never even started this shit. I'm afriad to take/drive the car anywhere because of these things. Which sucks, because I used to love it.

If anyone has ideas or can help, please do so ASAP. I NEED HELP before I sell this car.

hmm this is strange. it sounds like the wireing harness but this all started after the turbo was installed. did u take it some where to install it or did u do it urself. the sputering i have that problem cause my o2 sensor is broken in half and my coil is dieing. if u got the turbo installed somewhere maybe who ever did it touch something they weren't surppose to

 

[Blitzeclips]

Yea I did the install myself. Thats whats wierd, the car ran FINE for 2 weeks once we set the boost controller to 8psi..

My downpipe o2 sensor hasn't been replaced in almost 2 years. Could the extra carbon built up from the turbo be clogging it up or throwing it off? The downstream o2 has no CAT before it, because it;s a straight pipe.

Also, I was thinking the white plug tips may have come from coolant reaching the spark due to a blown headgasket. Which is wierd because I have a multi-layer fel-pro, and haven't gone over 8 psi...

Plug wires haven't been changed in 2 years either, and my coil pack is stock...

Could be millions of things but at this point I don't know...

 

[VelocitàPaola]

White plugs? Sounds like you're leaning out... don't you have an EGT or WbO2? I'd check the FMU and all fuel lines to make sure nothing is kinked, and that everything is set up properly.

The white plugs/sputtering sounds completely unrelated to the cluster lights to me.

You have an electrical short somewhere without a doubt. Where it is... I don't know. I don't know what you've done to your gauges, and/or how you've wired any aftermarket accessories. Did you wire any A-pillar gauges into the dimmer switch? If so, I'd rip apart the whole pillar and start looking for shorts.


Don't get disheartened; you're just now experiencing the life of a tuner. When something goes wrong, you need to retrace your steps unrelentingly until you find the problem. On the other hand, if you decide to give up, I call dibs on the 20G.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Thanks for the reply Paul.

I am honestly tired of this stuff though. I cannot explain the sputtering for the life of me. Runs great one minute, then stutters and shakes BADLY with NO POWER the next.

Vacum is fine (20) oil pressure is fine (25 @idle, 50 cruisin, 70-75 under boost) and coolant is sitting perfect, just below the mid-mark. Upper rad hose makes a gushing fluid noise when squeezed so I'm not losing coolant anywhere (knocks on wood) or as far as I can see...

There is NO OIL is the coolant. The oil looks fine, no milky substance.
The turbo has NO SHAFT PLAY at all, no oil in the housing or around the fins/ exits..
The only thing I can recall is my wires shitting on me, my feul pump going on and off, or my 02 sensor (DP) finally built enough carbon up to throw my ECU off, thus the sputtering...

I dont know what to do. Tomorrow I'm taking a damn sawzall to this bia..

ANY MORE SUGGESTIONS?>!?!?!

What would you wiseman and MODS do??? First thing, last thing??\
The feul pump NEEDS 12volts of power, correct? I plan on checking my ohms and voltage tomorrow...

If I don't find anything I;m running a compression test on it.

someone please explain/tell me whats going on with my car! I refuse to blown my $5000 motor on some retarded MAP sensor..

EDIT: BTW Paul, I checked all the feul lines more then once and don't see any kinks. Although I have yet to check around the feul pump area under my seat. Those lines were tricky to screw back on to begin with. Would a offset of threads on this line allow moisture to enter m,y gas tank? Resulting in my white plugs, etc? If I was running lean you'd think I wouldn't build boost the past 2 weeks without signs of starvation... 80y3trheru9gh87tjwefioj i quit

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Ha... I know what I'd do (this just hit me actually). This all just sounds like some misfiring. At the very least, make sure the wires are pushed firmly into the coil and plugs. After that, I'd go ahead and replace the wires and plugs. No need for anything fancy or expensive here; some $10 plugs will do fine.

I'd go ahead and do those things, then report back. If they aren't the problem, well, then at least you get new plugs and wires, which you should've had to begin with.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Yea thats what we figured (misfiring). But when we pulled the plugs they were straight white.

When we put new ones in, the problem persisted.

I'm afraid of detonation. Thats what it seems and sounds like...

Would I be draining my coil pack from all the extra mods and boost? It's still OEM..

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Well... plugs aren't the only thing that can cause you to misfire. I was misfiring once because all of my spark was arcing to the valve cover before it could reach the plug. I'd go ahead and replace the wires. I've posted directions on how to test the coil before too. Search around a little and I'm sure you'll find them.

 

[Blitzeclips]

I tried searching for your instructions on how to test the coil and came up empty handed.
If you could give me the run-down or link that'd be great because I don't know how.

Other things I need some help with checking/knowing:

* How many volts should I be expecting from my feul pump? 12? I want to see if its shitting out on me..

* How can you check the magnets on the knock sensor?
* How can I tell if the MAP sensor is bad? How many volts should it be reading?

* Can I test how mcuh power is getting through to the plug wires?

* What ohms should I be reading from the ECU?

I plan on doing all this today, along with checking/changing my BOSCH platinums for NGKBR7e-11. I'm settings the gap to around .030.

So if anyone can help ASAP with the correct readings I should expect and how to do it that'd be great. I've got to get to school and work this week somehow...

 

[VelocitàPaola]

So many questions to answer... I have a few diagrams and more info for you at home. I should be back online at around five if you can hold out that long.

 

[-noble69-]

I tried searching for your instructions on how to test the coil and came up empty handed.
If you could give me the run-down or link that'd be great because I don't know how.

Other things I need some help with checking/knowing:

* How many volts should I be expecting from my feul pump? 12? I want to see if its shitting out on me..

* How can you check the magnets on the knock sensor?
* How can I tell if the MAP sensor is bad? How many volts should it be reading?

* Can I test how mcuh power is getting through to the plug wires?

* What ohms should I be reading from the ECU?

I plan on doing all this today, along with checking/changing my BOSCH platinums for NGKBR7e-11. I'm settings the gap to around .030.

So if anyone can help ASAP with the correct readings I should expect and how to do it that'd be great. I've got to get to school and work this week somehow...

runs great one min runs shitty the next eh. sounds just like mine. check engine light on?
i sujest u check the o2. for the hell of it. set the gap to .50. and bosch r for euro cars mostly. just get some NGK. if ## sensor is bad ## ECU could be throwing more fuel then it needs( chocking) the engine.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

* How many volts should I be expecting from my feul pump? 12? I want to see if its shitting out on me..

First things first... you don't measure volts from a peripheral, you measure volts to it. Now, you're looking for approximately +12V to your fuel pump (please learn how to spell "fuel already ). You'll need to probe the wire harness leading to the pump with a multimeter to do this. Anything a little higher than +12V should be fine too.

* How can you check the magnets on the knock sensor?

Uh? I wasn't aware that there are user "check-able" magnets in the knock sensor. Do you mean the magnet in the CMPS? To do that, unbolt the CMPS from the head, and you'll see the magnet right there, bolted on the end of the camshaft. If it's cracked or otherwise broken, that could be your problem (although, I doubt it is).

* How can I tell if the MAP sensor is bad? How many volts should it be reading?

I'm not aware of any fullproof way to check the MAP, although you can inspect it visually to look for signs of fouling (massive carbon deposits that could affect pressure readings). You can also check the wiring harness similarly to how I told you to check the fuel pump's harness. The black wire is the ground, and the green/yellow wire should read about +5V. The other wire is the MAP output signal. If you're feeling especially ambitious, you can temporarily tap that other yellow wire and measure what it reads while the car is on. The value is should be something between 0.1V and 4.7V (it should be closer to 0.1V at idle).

There is a similar method to testing the O2 sensor and harness, but I don't know any of the wire colors down there off hand. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out though.

* Can I test how mcuh power is getting through to the plug wires?

Not directly. The usual way of determining if the plug wires are within spec is to measure their resistance. Personally, I wouldn't even bother with this though. Just go to Autozone and pick up a new set. If they aren't the problem, I bet they're apart of the problem.

* What ohms should I be reading from the ECU?

If you can figure out a way to diagnose an ECU by measuring it's resistance, I'd have much respect for you...

You usually determine the health of your ECU through a mixture of the means I listed above. Check the wiring harnesses of the CMPS, CKPS, and knock sensors using the method I described above for the MAP sensor. If the ECU isn't spitting out that +5V reference signal (I believe it's at least +5V for each of those sensors, but they could be different), then it's as good as gone. The only problem is, is that your car probably wouldn't start at all if there isn't a reference signal to any of those sensors. This method for checking the ECU is really only useful when diagnosing a car that won't start.

The only other way to "diagnose" a failing ECU is to compare symptoms with others who have had their ECUs die (bucking, random stalling, etc.).

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[4UH8ERS]

First things first. Take off your steering column cover and trace the wires back towards the firewall. You either kinked a wire when installing something or screwed through one ect and are grounding out.

Make sure you have the right fuses in the right spots in the fuse box, because naturally on a ground out it would immediatly blow the fuse to keep the wires from burning up, but if you had for instance a 30a fuse where a 10a should be it would let enough voltage pass to actually burn up the component.

goodluck!

 

[Blitzeclips]

THANKS PAUL. I appreciate your response and the answer to EVERY question I've asked..

Well, heres what I found yesterday. The return line for my turbo was holding maybe a tablespoon of oil. So I'm not sure if that's alot or not, but I re routed the line and added a 90 degree in replacement of a long curvy straight fitting. Looks much better. Wasn't the problem, but it surely will help.

The manifold had some bolts come pretty loose. It was actually surprising how loose those suckers got within 2 or 3 weeks or moderate driving.

Interestingly, there was only 2/3 bolts for my downpipe---->exhaust hhousing. On top of that, only 1/2 bolts there was loose. The other 1/2 bolts there was maybe finger tight.
I'm suspecting the rattling and smoke which I though was predetonation at first, may be from my downpiipe rattling against the exhaust housing, and allowing some smoke to sneak through in the process.

I've got plenty of antifreeze with nothing leaking or missing fliud. Resevoir is as full as it was last time I checked.

The feul pump is fine. I thought it wasn't priming at first, but then I started the car and turned it off, then put the keys in ON, and it primed. Which is good.

I cannot find any NGKs that will fit down those channels. Or, I cannot find any sockets that will fit FOR the NGK's. So theres no way for me to tighten them down. I'll have to find some other plugs somewhere..

We'll give everything else a shot today and see what happens. I am going to do a run down of the things Paul replied to, and add about 5 gallons of premium gas into the tank. Just incase this was a case of bad gas. I put some ISOLEET in it yesterday, maybe some of the water will get out of there..

Anyways wish me luck.

 

[Blitzeclips]

OK there is voltage getting to my MAP sensor and feul pump. The pump primes when I turn the key ON. We switched out the BOSCH Platinums for NGK 6es Iridiums. I was hoping to find the 7es (colder spark) or 7e-11 but eh, oh well. I figured I'd keep the BOSCH's to play with when she's on the dyno...

So I suspected bad gas also, I put some ISOLEET in it overnight and made a visit to the local Sonoco. I used my 5 gallon tank for the race bikes and topped it off with premium. I came home, filed er up, and let idle for a minute or two. No wierd noises, pinging, etc...

For shits and giggle I pulled out the MAP sensor. I found some NASTY looking carbon/resin/build up on it. I cleaned it off, and checked the area around the MAP sensor in the manifold. I think that was the problem, because there was so much carbon build up around the sensor, that it wasn't getting accurate readings.

I took the car for a test drive, and have had no problems yet. I honeslty think it was either water in my gas, or the MAP sensor. Maybe a combination of the two. THanks to all once again for the help.

 

[4UH8ERS]

OK there is voltage getting to my MAP sensor and feul pump. The pump primes when I turn the key ON. We switched out the BOSCH Platinums for NGK 6es Iridiums. I was hoping to find the 7es (colder spark) or 7e-11 but eh, oh well. I figured I'd keep the BOSCH's to play with when she's on the dyno...

So I suspected bad gas also, I put some ISOLEET in it overnight and made a visit to the local Sonoco. I used my 5 gallon tank for the race bikes and topped it off with premium. I came home, filed er up, and let idle for a minute or two. No wierd noises, pinging, etc...

For shits and giggle I pulled out the MAP sensor. I found some NASTY looking carbon/resin/build up on it. I cleaned it off, and checked the area around the MAP sensor in the manifold. I think that was the problem, because there was so much carbon build up around the sensor, that it wasn't getting accurate readings.

I took the car for a test drive, and have had no problems yet. I honeslty think it was either water in my gas, or the MAP sensor. Maybe a combination of the two. THanks to all once again for the help.

i would say probably say the map sensor and the huge azz exhaust leak.

 

[Blitzeclips]

i would say probably say the map sensor and the huge azz exhaust leak.

Yeah that too. I think it was a combination of all these little things. Yet I do need to buy some new plug wires and coil with my next paycheck.

Any recommendations for the pack and wires? I've heard BAD things with NOLOGY. I'd like to stick with NGK wires, and plugs. Maybe a MSD would work just fine though...

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I don't think wires really make that much of a difference at this stage. Your basic $30 wires should do fine.

 

[4UH8ERS]

msd would work just fine and its even not too expensive, since you can get the coil and the wires for 79.00. funny thing is a year and a half ago i bought mine from modernperformance.com for 59.00? guess they went up 20 bucks since then.