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ECMlink Help needed understanding strange results when trying to tune car. Logs attached

steve

DSM Wiseman
14,857
1,718
Feb 3, 2002
Boulder, Colorado
I would assume that real pro's measure and calibrate everything they can to minimize the tweeking they have to do to deal with variables.

Not to confuse this even more but when running SD I believe there is a third option, that of rescaling the VE map. But it's after lunch and I'm due for my nap...
 

TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
ok guys i made some changes as follows. This is gonna be long again but trying to detail everything I changed to avoid confusion. I will add cliff notes to end of post if it helps.

I noticed when the car is restarted when hot, it would idle like crap, but when first started it would idle smoothly. It has done this for a long time now, i think even before I had engine rebuilt. So I first went through some of my settings and changed some that were incorrect or atleast I believe they are. My disable maf comp with speed density box was unchecked. Since I am using speed density, and to avoid any confusion, I checked that box so it is now disabling MAF comp. I see you can use both but I think it would be better to just stick with VE table to make adjustments instead of using that. Before I checked it, car was bouncing around at idle and once I checked this box it smoothed out greatly. So I left that box checked as it made an improvement.

Enable idle air clamp was checked for some reason. From what I am seeing online, this is only used to adjust fuel if you are running MAF and not recirculating the BOV. Since I am again running SD now, this box shouldn't be checked so i unchecked it and left it unchecked.

I messed around with global fuel and dead times and got the wideband factor within + or - 5% however that required me to have the injectors set around 775cc or something which is much lower than the 1200 that they are. I increased the fuel pressure at the regulator to around 47ish (fuel pressure gauge is full of water and has barely any markings so hard to tell for sure) . The idle increased and started surging above 1,000 rpms after this change. It would idle like normal then surge to above 1,000. I remember reading somewhere that the ecu starts messing with timing when it gets above 900 so I changed my idle speed to 800 rpm. That took care of the surging however isc position was now out of wack.

I then readjusted biss screw so isc pos was around 30 at idle. The idle seemed to level out much better and although there is a little variation in idle speed which may be due to the cams, it at least isn't surging. One thing I noted is, I had to turn the biss screw almost a full turn to get it to make any changes. It was down around 22 isc position, I turned it an 1/8th of a turn and it didn't do anything. Turned it another 1/8th still no change. Turned it back to where it was, then gave it almost a full turn and got it to react and sent it around 35 area. I was then able to make fine smaller 1/8th turn changes and get it down lower. Just thought it was weird it took that much of a turn for it to increase but maybe that is normal? This was without the ecu or timing being grounded so not sure if that is necessary to use to set it or what as I seem to see different opinions on that.

Anyway got it it idling pretty good around 800 rpm now with wide band factor closer to + or - 5% with it going over 5 % sometimes. Current fuel pressure at regulator is around 47. Injector size is set at 1,000 cc in link with global fuel being 55.5 and global dead time 595. So for PTE 1200 this is low but as stated this is common to be lower and that is where my calculations said it should be set at going off of that old log and using the calculations in the video I posted earlier. Since my car was 23% lean according to wideband factor going off that old log posted on the other page so 100/123=0.8133x1228 (what my injectors were listed as in ecm link at that time)=998.37 or almost 1,000 injectors.

Took the car around the block and did a couple small pulls and got check engine light for knock a few times.

Attached is a log showing the idle in the beginning. This reflect all the above changes I made. The highest knock occurred at 356.934 seconds into the log with 4.6 degrees of knock. WB factor is showing 0.7% at the highest point of knock. If you go look at the attached screenshot i have included from 356.612 seconds into the log which is just before the knock was recorded, it shows the WB Factor is 11.7% You can also see the two highlighted cells that were being used at that point that are current 95.0 and 96.5. So I am still looking at increasing global or fuel pressure so I don't have to have numbers in the VE table that exceed 100. I am going to try and increase base fuel press at the regulator to 50 and see what difference that makes.




CLIFF NOTES

I checked the disable MAF comp box that was unchecked. I am running speed density so don't need MAF comp and my maf comp table I believe has changes on it and is not a flat line.
Unchecked the enable idle air clamp box as I am running SD so doesn't matter if BOV is recirculated.
Increased fuel pressure at regulator to around 47.
Changed fuel injector size to 1000, global fuel to 55.5 and global dead time to 595 as wideband factor was still around 11% at idle
Idle started surging after the above fuel changes so set idle to 800 RPM and readjusted Biss till ISC Position hovered around 30
Took car out around the block and did a couple pulls. Still getting knock but not as bad.
Wideband factor is 11.7% right before the knock occurs. VE table cells being used at this point are 95 and 96.5 so once again I would have to raise VE table cells above 100 still.
I am going to try and increase fuel pressure to 50 and do another pull and see the results.

If you made it this far, thanks again to all who are taking time out of their busy days to try and help. I do believe I am starting to understand this tuning thing more and more as I mess with it.

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Attachments

  • after changes to BFP idle speed deadtime disablemaf comp with sd disable idle air.elg
    393.4 KB · Views: 6

TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
so basically drive it more and do the combine ft sd tool to adjust the cells,smooth them out and set the ones highlighted to 100 in the screen shot
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,796
3,683
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
Set global first and leave it. Forget about cruise if it’s running decent for now.
Set those values between 5-6k to 100, and in the areas you’re lean, increase the ve values. Once you hit your target afr’s during wot, leave the global.

What turbo are you running?
 

TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
Ok I bumped the global fuel up from 55.5 to 45 ish range. Dont remember off the top of my head. Kinda strange but when I loaded my most recent log that I just captured, the global fuel is back to 55.5. Guess it somehow changed back. Maybe I hit a wrong button or something. I didn't touch the global dead time and left it at 595. But anyways changed it to around 45, reset fuel trims and did some pulls. At most i got 1.4 degrees of knock. I attached the log from this drive. Managed to get up to 6,000 rpms this time with no CEL. Just before the 1.4 degrees of knock was recorded my wideband factor was +22%. Its 648.958 seconds into log. Not sure if this is because I probably need to smooth it up and down as it goes from 89 to 90 to 100. Not sure if that jump in VE is what is causing the knock in that instance or not. There is also another spot in log where I got about 1.1 degrees of knock. Seems like we are headed in the right direction :)

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Attachments

  • after changing global.elg
    501.4 KB · Views: 6

TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
Ok yes I see in the screen shot you posted it was 7% rich according to wideband factor. just curious what you like the wb factor to be before you stop making global adjustments? Just for future reference
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,796
3,683
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
Ok yes I see in the screen shot you posted it was 7% rich according to wideband factor. just curious what you like the wb factor to be before you stop making global adjustments? Just for future reference
Wbfactor is the difference between your target afr and wb. You want close to 0% as possible.
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,796
3,683
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
I would lower these cells. Turbo probably doesn't have much after 6k. Also need to do tps adjust, throttle percentage should be 100% and tpsVolts 5v.
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TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
Ok i will lower those cells above 6k. The weird thing, is I do a TPS adjust and it changes slightly when throttle is applied. Set it at the .63 with car off and make sure it gets to 5v at full throttle. When car is running throttle volts varies slightly. Tried setting it with to .63 with car idling, same thing happens, it varies slightly. Not sure if my tps is going bad or what
 

TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
Ok I will trying running TPS adjust with engine running. I did three logs this morning before I saw your reply this morning.

Keep in mind the prior log I posted, the global I believe was like 48 or something. So when you replied to lower the number to 58.2 (you were thinking it was set at 55 when I did that log) that would be incorrect as global was set around -48 at time of that log. Also I did lower my boost at the controller a little. I am running and Eboost 2 and i have it set to open wastegate at anything above 22 psi. I noticed I was hitting over boost protection yesterday so I lowered the set point so it maxes closer to 20.


I did three new logs this morning before I saw your post you made this morning so none of those changes were implemented when these logs were gathered. The last log labeled 54.7 in the very beginning of the log I was running global fuel of 55.5. About 68 seconds into that log I got CEL with 3.5 degrees of knock. WB factor was still negative though before the knock occurred. After I got CEL, I changed the global to 54.7 and did another pull 559 seconds into log and got no CEL. I know you said not to worry about knock, but I don't want to ruin my rebuilt engine so a little leary what to think. At 55.5 global the WB factor is closer to 0 that 54.7 but I get a CEL for more than 2 degrees of knock. To get the WB factor closer to 0 I would have to lean it out more than 55.5 global. Maybe the knock I am getting is from too much timing, but I havent touched timing table and it goes away when I add fuel?


Still having an issue where I set the global to a certain number, capture a log, save the log which should save any changes in global (i think). If I close the log and reopen it, it has a different number in the global than what I set it to when I did the pull, so not sure what is going on there.
 

Attachments

  • 53.5 global.elg
    634.3 KB · Views: 7
  • 54.3 global.elg
    299.7 KB · Views: 8
  • 54.7 global.elg
    471.3 KB · Views: 7

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,796
3,683
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
My bad. When I said don't worry about knock, I was referring to the last log where it was only 1*. We can lower the timing table a bit. Use this one. Still a little rich, try -57.4 global and make sure you save whenever you make changes that you want to keep. And only work with one log since you're new at this.

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TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
Ok I was thinking thats what you meant. No problem. Ok so changed my VE table to match what you have in post 62 adjusting the 6,000 rpm on up range to match what you have. I did a TPS adjust while it was running and got it back to .63v at idle. I changed the timing max octane to match what you have. Changed global to 57.4. Got a log with about 3 pulls. The first pull I started in 3rd gear low rpms and foot to the floor till I hit about 6,000. The 2nd pull I started when I was about 5,000 rpms and went up a little. Third pull I wasn't giving full throttle because it was in 2nd gear and spinning. So basically first pull may be the best to go off. Earlier in the pull, WB factor was postive and kinda high but up towards the top end of the pull when boost is higher it is around -2.6 to +2.7
 

Attachments

  • 57.4 global changed timing ve cells after 6k.elg
    408.8 KB · Views: 7

TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
Going over that last log I noticed my tps was reading .63v at idle like it should. Not too long after that first pull it went out a wack again and was reading 1% throttle position when I am not on throttle so it changed back again. Should I have to TPS adjust the car everytime I take a log, is that what you have to do?

Loaded up your ve table and got a 3rd gear pull. I forgot to redo the TPS adjust so its reading 1% when no on throttle still.
 

Attachments

  • after VE changes.elg
    417.3 KB · Views: 8

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
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3,683
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
I assume throttle body is clean of carbon build up. Make sure the throttle cable isn't too tight. It should have a little slack. Was the throttle body rebuilt? If so, possibly overtightened the nut for the shaft. When this happens see if you can close it by hand.

Is there a reason you're not reving to 7k? Load this VE table.

I just noticed you have changes to the MAF comp slider. You don't need to use this anymore since it's on SD so zero it out.

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You're using the stock front O2 sensor so you can change this to undefned. You change this if you're simulating narrowband from WB.

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Attachments

  • VE.ecm
    4.9 KB · Views: 9
Last edited:

TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
I will check the throttle body and see if I can close it by hand more and check to see if loosening throttle cable helps at all. I have a sneaking suspicion what it may be. When I put the engine in, I remember the throttle cable where it comes from the firewall, the casing was broken and it was loose. I will check that area out and see if its the cause.

I will zero out the maf comp sliders and change the rear o2 to undefined. I am not simulating narrowband but my wideband is wired into the rear o2 pin at ecu which is why I had it set that way but I see thats only when using narrowband so it can be changed to undefined.

I wasn't running up to 7,000 rpms because I am running out of road/getting scared LOL. I need to do my future logs on the highway probably and not some back country road with a 35 mph speed limit with dips and bumps and low shoulder. I will make sure to do my future pulls on the highway where I can get up to 7,000 RPM.

I will load the VE table and do another pull up to 7,000 and post the results. Might not be for a few days as M-F I am pretty busy with work but I will get it to you as soon as can. Thanks for the help so far.
 

TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
So I didn't get to do any pulls today because it was raining, but I did manage to determine that that I turn the throttle at the body by hand and let it slowly back to idle, I can get it to go to 1 instead and 0 at idle . If I try shutting it more by hand I can close it completely. Seems like it gets worse as the engine gets warmer and tends to stay at 1 more instead of 0. There is plenty of slack in the cable at idle and I can jiggle the slack in the cable with it making no difference to the throttle position indicated in ecm link. So I know its either a dirty throttle body or maybe that bolt is too tight like you mentioned.
 

AWD-Tony

Supporting Member
6,796
3,683
Sep 11, 2017
Cincinnati, Ohio
So I didn't get to do any pulls today because it was raining, but I did manage to determine that that I turn the throttle at the body by hand and let it slowly back to idle, I can get it to go to 1 instead and 0 at idle . If I try shutting it more by hand I can close it completely. Seems like it gets worse as the engine gets warmer and tends to stay at 1 more instead of 0. There is plenty of slack in the cable at idle and I can jiggle the slack in the cable with it making no difference to the throttle position indicated in ecm link. So I know its either a dirty throttle body or maybe that bolt is too tight like you mentioned.
You can get to the nut by removing the tps. It doesn’t need to be tight, just snug. Also make sure the plate is level in the bore. 1g has marks parallel to the shaft, not sure if 2g has the same.
 
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TurboSpider

Proven Member
223
16
Nov 2, 2015
York, Pennsylvania
I didn't get to mess with throttle body yet but I did go do a few pulls. I changed my open loop thresholds back to stock because I forgot to change them back to stock. I changed them back and did a pull and got knock. I am guessing because our prior calculations were based on keeping it in closed loop longer, now that the thresholds are back to stock it is throwing things off.

I increased the global a to 56.2 from (57.4) and did a pull up to 7k. I attached the log. I am thinking I need to increase the global just a little more. See attached screen shot. At 220.516 seconds in log it is adding 1.7 wb factor. Ve cells in that area are already set at 100 so I shouldn't go any higher. So I am guessing I need to come up a hair yet on global. Most of the rest of the pull it is taking fuel out so I could probably pull that out from the VE table.

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  • 56.2 globabl on way back home from moms.elg
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