Help me plan, road course 92 awd

[theamsoilguy]

I built a 91 AWD for chump car racing, gutted it ( hood, doors, dash, ps delete ) put in a cage and a race seat, no hatch and was surprised that with me ( 190 lb ) its still 2918 lb. So thats a baseline for me to figure out how to reduce more weight. Picture is the Chump Car, not the one Im going to build next.

FYI, with me in it
LF 941
RF 866
LR 605
RR 505

Since I have the chump car, and a parts car, I stumbled on a rolled 92 awd rally car, its came with a BUNCH of spare parts. Big turbo, 3 inch exhaust, 4 bolt, etc, etc capable of 350 HP at the wheels, I also have a 92 roller ( $200 ). So I can repair the rolled car ( cage needs mods to conform to the road racing rules ) or use the roller and swap parts over.

I picked up 8 brand new 235/40/17 for a steal ( toyo r888 ) I will have some nitto nt-01 275/40/17 that will go on the car later, but I have tires to burn now.

I have a super afc, hard pipes, good boost controller, GM maf, chipped ecu, strut bar, lots of spare bits.

Im not a 'dsm' tuner but I have a friend who really knows what he is doing with a 2g.

So what do I need? Well here is my shopping list. I have lots of race bits at home, seats, belts, bushings , ignition kill, etc.

Updated list Sept 6 --------
Good rad $250
Intercooler, have no idea what to get.
Scratch the Meegan racing coil overs $1000 and go for the JIC for $2000 !
VR4 brake upgrade $600
RT sway bars $400 - look into whitelines
Will get the jay racing active toe delete kit
17*9 et 27 wheels found a few around $250 each new.

This is a budget build, I have another car, that frankly is a bit expensive to run and I would rather drive it only in events where I have sponsors. The DSM will be a regular track toy that isnt going to send me into a depression if something happens.

Help me pick parts, new or used and plan this. It might see the track next year. Advice on the parts I picked so far. Or if you have parts to sell that I could use, pm me.

 

[cait sith]

Megan Coilovers are absolutely worthless for track, and worthless for pretty much every other purpose other than looking cool. Whatever is on the rally car now would be better than those. I realize your shoestring budget, but you'd be much better off buying something that actually works (Not getting into this).

29xx lbs with a 200 pound driver isn't bad for an AWD car when you probably still have the bottom tar, most of the sound deadening, gas, and stock tin.

 

[theamsoilguy]

I figured the meegans wouldnt cut it and thats why I threw out a parts list of what i was thinking, the rally car had high end stuff, but that was taken out of the car and I put in some stock worn out ones in so I can roll the car. Whats a good racing suspension? Im getting ground controls for my 944 but I didnt see a talon kit for another $1000 Im sure its a way better system. I bet they have one though.

Sound deadning removed, undercoating is still there. The car Iwill build I will spend more time on and eventually reduce weight in the chump car. Its way too nose heavy though and I did relocate the battery.

 

[theamsoilguy]

Muellerize has some JIC for $2000 for suspension.
Nobody has any recommendations for my build? I figure 1g is old news and no one will guard secrets and its been done and there should be some good tips out there.

 

[Johng322]

The Muellerized JIC's are supposed to be good. There was also an announcement that he is offering Ohlin coilovers for the 1g but these are more pricey. The active toe delete is a good choice to make the car more predictable. I'm not familiar with the RT swaybars but if you haven't yet you may want to look into Whiteline. They offer an adjustable 26mm rear bar and a 22mm front bar. Bulfab fabrications (vassil on the forum) also offers some suspension pieces for the 1g. I don't have much in the way of personal experience as like yourself I'm very much in the planning stages.

 

[theamsoilguy]

I took the car built for chump car racing out tonight 1991 awd, was allowed two moderate laps to test a engine isue. Im ready to race a almost completly stock car tomorrow. I have the 2 piston fronts with porterfield r4e pads. I took out the brake ducting I tried to install as it was rubbing everywhere, these cars are impossible to brake duct. Anyways the car also has the rear toe fix and I put in the rt rear sway ( which is probably going to cost me penalty laps in a chump car race ) . The rear sway has taken the bad push and introduced a throttle oversteer. I like it ! Now if it were adjustable that would be better so thats a great tip on the whitelines I will look into them.

I woke up in a cold sweat the other night, I never set the timing on the chump car after I built the engine and its completed a endurance race since, , . That will be addressed at the track first thing in the morning.

 

[lowell]

Tubular rear control arms made a big difference to the handling on my car. Tamed the oversteer on turn in and during trail braking. That was with the RG toe eliminator kit but stock bushings.

 

[jdsoza]

what are rule regulations? For 2K you could find some double adjustable variant 3 evo coilovers and slap them on your 1g, suspension wont get any better than that, except maybe for a 5K set of ohlins. Theres lots you can do, correct roll center, camber plates up front, bushings, sway bars, lsd. it all depends on how deep your wallet is and what are your goals? Im really wanting to build a time attack fwd or awd 2g, my hearts saying yes but wallet is saying no. i mean for the price of one 2G built to compete in time attack I could build 2 honda civics and campaign a team. Im all for the DSM crowd, so i say do it!

 

[91stocker]

Or these beauties

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/road-course-autocross/442789-ohlins-coilovers-now-available-1g.html

 

[theamsoilguy]

Only rules are hp\weight class, your induction system comes into play. So any brakes\suspension. You bushing will be done, sway bars also. Im trying to keep it a budget build but $2000 for coil over\shocks is reasonable. I have the 2 piston calipers and it took 15 minutes for them to stop smoking today. The rx7 can out brake me and thats a problem when the car in front of him spins.

Here is my oh shit moment of the day. This is a chump car 1991 AWD talon, so this car I cant mod, but the one I want to build Im all ears for advice.

ohshit - YouTube

 

[jdsoza]

for 2g's you can get some nice pieces. I have found evo brembo calipers on ebay for as low as $500, those would do you some good but i cant recall if they been put on a 1g. rear control arms definitely will help you out. do you have a welder? stitch weld the chassis and subframes if you do. To anybody with knowlegde of the ohlins, are those double adjustables?

 

[theamsoilguy]

Any suggestions for chassis mods? It will be stripped of everything. crash bumpers? sheet metal removal ( rear seat sort of thing ). I cooked the 2 piston calipers this weekend, its way too heavy....so I want to build the next one better.

 

[cioc]

Go with Stoptech's up front and duct them. It can be done.

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And let me tell you it WORKS!
The only time I get the slightest rub is going full lock the tire will contact the duct but it wont crush. As for chassis mods, I've heard you can reinforce seam welds but I've never done this. I've removed the front bumper and the crash beams in the door however I left the rear in for fear of leaving the gas tank completely unprotected. I was going to move the rear seat support that goes across the entire car however I was told long ago that this does help support the unibody. If you put an elaborate cage in perhaps it could be removed however I bet the weight savings is only around 5 lbs. I can make that up by not eating cookies for a week. Shoot me a PM regarding the JIC's, I'll work with you on the price.

 

[theamsoilguy]

I saw that thread on the ducting, probably the nicest I have seen so far. Im tempted to put a scoop on the fender and go straight down. Any more pics of the backing place and how it fits in? My ducting worked like crap ( and the intercooler is in the way ). I had my exhaust pipe tube welded in a different spot. I never thought of bending the shape to fit it onto the backing plate....

I have some good news. A Mitsu Dealer looks like they might sponsor me. My 944 goes on display all winter in a local rec place. The 944 is getting a widebody kit and Im putting in the 91 GSX for the winter. Details to be worked out. Im hoping thats the foot in the door for a dealer sponsorship for this build when it sees the track in 2014 , I dont think I will be done for 2013 as I have the winter full with other projects. Plus Im going to use the chump car one more summer in club racing I think,

This is what happens when something goes horrible wrong with the brakes. I sure had to fight the wheel.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=awcawc+ohshit2

I was looking at the VR-4 upgrade for about $600 ( everything to do it ). The VR-4 calipers might be a bit heavy, its a 13 inch rotor with that kit. Stoptech kit is $2000 I will go the $600-700 route with the vr-4 calipers.

 

[dieselsdad]

I'm not sure about the ginormous brake fad that's swept everyone in the last 10 years or so. Looks to me from some of the video that you might have some balance,set-up or brake distribution issues causing the rears to lock up? I'm using 2nd gen 2 piston calipers on the front of my 1g racecar and stock rears. We're currently using Hawk race pads but I've also used Carbotech and Performance Friction and others with good results. No abs, the brakes are always capable of out working the tires and we use 245/40/17ish size race rubber. If the brakes can outwork the tires and they're not FADING there's nothing you can really hope to improve is there? If you haven't found some way to duct the brakes then that's the first place to work. The previous posters ducts look similar to mine although I run a side mount intercooler so it's a little easier to pick up air at the front. My car is one of the ex-Archer Brothers factory backed racecars from 89-90 so it's been a sprint and endurance racer its entire life. For what it's worth the Archer Bros replaced the then new 1989 single piston calipers with some aluminum 2 piston calipers from a corvette of the same era. The stock 2 piston 2g calipers I have now work better than the corvette ones did and pads are cheaper, go figure. Ducting is your friend on the front of these cars, too much weight up front to not have it.

As for suspension, I'm still using the Bilsteins with coilover sleeves the Archer Bros put on the car with no complaints. I have various forms of Bilstein race, Koni race and other threaded body race shocks on my other cars and all are pretty good. The difference between a good Koni/GC setup and a $2000 mega set-up is very minimal and I have other areas that I can focus on to make things faster or lighten the car/wallet (including making the driver faster). I run a big ol honkin' rear bar that's adjustable (and generic, aka not Talon/Eclipse specific) and NO front bar. I'm not usually a Fwd fanboi as all of my other cars are rwd but this one rotates with the throttle like my others. I plan on putting my car on a mild diet this winter, mild because I don't want to take the car too far away from it's original livery and setup. I'll add lexan windows and would consider some fiberglass hood and trunklids if I match the paint. The doors are getting further gutted to add some NASCAR bracing on the drivers side and properly x-brace the passenger side. So long as I don't add too much weight. I'm running a locked frt diff as well. If I mess up the corner and the car pushes I just mash the throttle and the diff typically corrects some of my mistakes. I'm at work now and don't remember the weight on this car, I'll try to check and post it later. It seems lighter than the number you posted and is all stock and all there except for interior, stock dash and gauges but that's it.