Help car wont idle at all with the 550 cc injectors

[Tamatalon39]

I bought the car with these in there but it wasn't running (bent valves) so I am not sure if it ever ran with them. I replaced the head and finished the 6 bolt swap wiring. but it would not hold an idle with the 550 injectors. either with the factory MAF or the GM MAF and translator. I know I probably dont have the tune right on either that or the SAFC but Everyone keeps telling me that it should at least idle. Then I can try to tune it. any help would be nice.

 

[95talongirl]

Idle surge? Stalling? or misfire perhaps?

It should idle with 550's... it may run somewhat rich, but it should idle. You probably have a boost leak and/or vacuum leak. Or if its a misfire problem, you need to do something with the coil wires that the 6-bolt people do. I'm not sure what that is exactly, since I still run a 7-bolt. ..But Have heard people talk about it.

 

[92PandaTalonTSI]

Back to basics. Just had this problem with my car for MONTHS!!!! Thought it was a few different things. Like everyone else will say right away, perform a Boost Leak Test. If everything passes, check the 3 basicsc to get a car running the right way. These are spark, fuel, compression. Spark is pretty simple. I usually pull the wires out and see if they are sparking by sticking a screwdriver in it and putting it over metal to see if there is strong spark. If all 4 pass and they are firing in the right order, it passes. Then check if the fuel is entering the cylinder. This is what I found out to be wrong with my car after $2000 in engines and other bs parts. Clogged Injectors!!!!!! By pulling the spark plug wires while the car is running you can see if there is any type of misfire. (because mine was running on 1 cylinder, i couldn't hear a misfire on just one cylinder). If there is any kind of misfire, but the spark is all working, then you have a problem with the fuel. When I figured out the injectors were the problem I removed them and tried blowing through them with the release pin pushed in. only the working cylinders injector blew throug (no surprise). So check that too. Also the resistor pack located on the firewall. Could also be CAS no working right or ecu but really havent heard of too many ecu problems with the 2gs. After that, check compression. I think it should be 150 psi or higher across the board all in a few psi with eachother, please correct me if I'm wrong. If all those pass, you should be ok to think it's tuning and nothing with the engine.

Edit: forgot you were running a 6 bolt swap. Pull the CAS out and test it with car in on postion and see if you can hear each injector/spark plug firing.

 

[Archeryfreak]

Well since you said the valves were bent first I would make sure that your timing is not off and your belt is on correctly. Not skipped a tooth or something like that. And tune is really huge. If your ignition timing is off you wont idle at all. If it is your timing or tune than you should be able to rev it up and it should stay going.

After that, check compression. I think it should be 150 psi or higher across the board all in a few psi with eachother, please correct me if I'm wrong. If all those pass, you should be ok to think it's tuning and nothing with the engine.

Edit: forgot you were running a 6 bolt swap. Pull the CAS out and test it with car in on postion and see if you can hear each injector/spark plug firing.

Also while 150 psi would be ideal... It does not take that just to make the car idle. It can be as low as 100 and still be ok.... should run at least. The higher the better though.

 

[92PandaTalonTSI]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[92AWDHX40]

i threw mine in with a gm maft and it idled fine, something esle going on there. Look for boost leaks, i hated the maft after a while sold it and got link.

 

[Archeryfreak]

If it is the MAF spray the air flow sensor with brake cleaner and it should read better. There is a special spray but I found it leaves a film and can mess up readings. I would just use good old run of the mill brake clean.

 

[Tamatalon39]

Ok well I maybe didn't explain this too well. i got the car with the 550's after I replaced the head and finished up the 6 bolt swap ( firing order swap and invert the phasing of the injectors) -(also installed a potentiometer)for the random misfiring that can be caused by these swaps. i then tried to start it and it sputtered and bogged and wanted to stall all the time. could never get it to keep an idle.

so on a whim I put factory injectors in and wala it idled and drove perfectly. this was with the factory MAF setup. I then installed a GM 3in MAF and the translator from my rusty eclipse, and tried reinnstalling the 550's still wont idle.

so I then installed the SAFC2 out of the same car. and then junked the car. The car runs pretty good and reliable. but the power is not much more than a factor 2g turbo. and I feel that a 16g turbo and all the supporting mods should have more power than this..... which is partly because I dont have big enough injectors.

the car will boost up to about 14 psi in 2nd gear and maybe 10-11 the rest of the gears. it feels like it hit a fuel cut of some sort. I dont have a boost leak tester but i have all new clamps and all new injector seals and other seals also. again I believe it is fuel (lack there of) related. sorry for the novel

I keep seeing things about a datalogger... and no I dont have one but I do have a OBD code reader that reads alot of info which may possibly give me the info that a datalogger would. so what Info do I need it to read so I can be sure it will do this.?

 

[92AWDHX40]

Terry's Talon Troubleshooting Tips #3 - Fast Idle (aka. Idle Surge)


DSM Forums - dsm idle


perhaps its something else.

 

[92PandaTalonTSI]

Was the car you bought sitting a while before you got it? If it sounds like fuel then I would try evrything in the fuel system. I don't understand how you can run it through the gears, but you can't get it to idle? Anywho, if it sounds like a fuel problem start there. Check the fuel filter, pump (sometimes the filter on there gets gunked up), injectors for clogs, fuel rail. But to me it sounds like a problem with the 550cc injectors. Do you have any spare injector harnesses laying around? If so, remove all the injectors and test them using this diagram. Just plug the injector into the pigtail and hit the momentary switch. it simulates the way the ECU ground the injector for a second releasing the fuel. If they click, they are workig, if not there is your problem. To test the injector, use a 5cc syringe and squirt injector cleaner at the same time. There is a video on youtube somwhere about it. That'll clean the injectors out.

 

[Tamatalon39]

I can not get it to run through the gears with the 550's the only way the car will idle and is driveable is with the factory injectors. I just want to use the 550s as an upgrade-for more power for my 16g

 

[suprasalas]

check for vacuum leaks.. most likly cause

 

[2g4me]

If it was a vacuum leak, he wouldnt be idling ok and driving fine with the stock injectors.

You probably got a couple or set of bad injectors, thats what you keep leading us to believe the issue is with your explanations.

 

[92PandaTalonTSI]

Please use my method to test your injectors!!!!!!!!! Please please please please!!!!! If everything is running right with the stock ones but you switch injectors and it doesn't work there could only be one problem. It has to be with the injectors!!! Are they high impedence injectors?

 

[Tamatalon39]

I will test them this weekend, and they are evo injectors so whatever the stock impedence is: they were installed in the car when I bought it used not running so they MAY be bad because the car sat for a couple of years from the looks of it. I do have an adjustable FPR comming but I did not want to put it on until i fixed the issue, so I didn't have 1 more thing in the mix that could be the problem

 

[Abe'sGST]

like mentioned above, from what you are telling us, it leads to bad injectors...what i usually do to test them is check resistance to be within specs and i do an injector balance test (not sure if you can do this with dsm's though)

 

[skatershawn]

I'm having the same issue, ran perfect with stock 450s now it misfires and it seems to keep getting worse. I got my 550 injectors used, had plans to soak them in sea foam and clean them out. but got rushed into using them! Will clean them and should be fine!

So i'm going to go with the others and i vote clean the injectors see if that helps! You got used 560s from some evo, they could be damn near completely cloaked!

 

[kmarttalon]

i agree a injector issue