Hahn s20g and fp mani clearance issue?

[DannyE]

Just did, I don’t think it really gets any better then what you produce. I tried to spot any sort of flaw, but there isn’t any. Eight hundred is a drop in the bucket for such fine craftsmanship. Plus I do believe an hx40 or gt42 is right around the corner for me. My brothers s2k has a garrett gt3076 and it really doesn’t get any quicker for the street imo. I think I’m going to have him beat but you never know.

 

[bling5tatus]

Correct, that’s a t3 to mhi adapter. I don’t want to go out and buy a evolll 7cm turbine housing. That’s the whole reason I wanted the s20g because the t3 10cm housing flows much better and the extra lag helps in my application seeing I’m fwd.

The adapter just moves the turbo slightly downwards, it’s the front to back which is the issue. Going to the 7cm housing may work and get me the clearance I need, but then again that’s another $120 right off the bat. If I end up running the rre flange and have leaks then I will just go ahead and purchase the 7cm housing.

You're not gaining performance from that housing with the dsm flange on the manifold clogging it up.

 

[DannyE]

@bling5tatus If your talking about the provided adapter then no, there is no blockage from the manifold to the turbine housing and its a very smooth transition. If your saying the mhi flange on the fp manifold in relation to the t3 flange on the turbine housing, then maybe. I really see no major differences from the manifold through the adapter to the turbine housing, all transitions are smooth and there are no visible obstructions.

The t3 housing is really going to help my fwd setup, seeing the lag will help prevent some wheel spin and prevent some drivetrain shock seeing I will mostly be roll racing it. I’m only shooting for around 350~400 whp and to be honest I think I should have no issues making those numbers on the s20g even with the adapter. If and when I hit the dyno for a tune, if I don’t make the numbers I’m going for, then I will change some things.

Trust me, the first thing I thought about was a t3 manifold compared to the mhi, but when I compared my fp manifold to a buddy’s t3 manifold there was only slight change changes and basically little to no overall size differences between the two. I mean take a look at those jm fabrications manifold flanges, they basically do the same thing that the mhi to t3 adapter does. It takes one shape and channels it to another shape in a smooth transition.

Thank you for your concern bud, I appreciate all the feedback and knowledge of the pros on this sight.

 

[bling5tatus]

What i'm referring to is the fact that the manifold is not going to move more exhaust through the dsm flange than it would through a T3 flange. In a system that uses an adapter, you're limited to the smallest part of the system at the earliest point in the system. This is why the smooth transition in the adapter and larger T3 style turbine housing don't matter. They're both being restricted by what the dsm flange can move.

This is the exact same idea as putting a large exhaust tip on a stock exhaust pipe. The gains are only in decibels and maybe very slightly in actual power.... and I do mean slight.

This is also why putting a stock throttle body on an SMIM isn't that "productive".... or putting a Q45 throttle body on a small 16g isn't fantastic. Some would say this is beating a dead horse, but beating a dead horse also doesn't hurt because it's already dead. Intake and exhaust needs to be looked at on a whole.... as a system that works well together. The better you can identify where the restrictions are the better you'll be at making power.

In your shoes, I'd look into using a dsm flanged FP turbo, or swapping the FP manifold to something that has a T3 flange on it.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

What i'm referring to is the fact that the manifold is not going to move more exhaust through the dsm flange than it would through a T3 flange. In a system that uses an adapter, you're limited to the smallest part of the system at the earliest point in the system. This is why the smooth transition in the adapter and larger T3 style turbine housing don't matter. They're both being restricted by what the dsm flange can move.

This is the exact same idea as putting a large exhaust tip on a stock exhaust pipe. The gains are only in decibels and maybe very slightly in actual power.... and I do mean slight.

This is also why putting a stock throttle body on an SMIM isn't that "productive".... or putting a Q45 throttle body on a small 16g isn't fantastic. Some would say this is beating a dead horse, but beating a dead horse also doesn't hurt because it's already dead. Intake and exhaust needs to be looked at on a whole.... as a system that works well together. The better you can identify where the restrictions are the better you'll be at making power.

In your shoes, I'd look into using a dsm flanged FP turbo, or swapping the FP manifold to something that has a T3 flange on it.

To be completely honest here, a td05 hole is the same size as a tial vband and T3 but it's circular. The issue is not the flange itself. It's the turbine housing selection. I can take a pic of all of these flanges and you will see they are virtually the same size. Talked to FP about this when a customer wanted to seitch his dsm86 to T3, they said he wouldnt gain anything and I verified that looks to be true. However I'm not a fan of adapters, and the cast manifolds are a restriction cause they flow like crap and dont have good runner volume or flow velocity... and they look like poo

 

[DannyE]

@bling5tatus http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/fp-manifold-good-for-450-500-hp.409275/ Look at post #4.

Like @Archer Fabrications has mentioned, overall flange sizes between the t3 and mhi are about the same. The main problem is one is round and one is rectangular therefore the transition between the two fight each other hence the adapter.

I agree with @Archer Fabrications that flow velocity is most important when it comes to turbo setups, I do believe that the fp manifold will easily flow enough to get me the 350~400 I’m looking for even know (yes) they both kind of fight each other. Of course if I had the cash at this point I’d be purchasing one of Archers top mount t3 manifolds without question. I still need to purchase a lot of my fuel system and other odds and ends but believe me, I will be picking up one of those Archer manifolds sooner or later.

 

[DannyE]

@bling5tatus To be honest, you probably are right. I should just fork over the cash and pick up an evolll 7cm housing. That would also allow me not to have too run any manifold spacers. I do know that I will be picking up a holset waste gate actuator because the one on there just won’t work above twenty psi or so.

I will let you all know what I go with when I decide.

Thanks again for all the valuable info fellas.

 

[Vegas Smith]

I'm sure somebody could take a measurement on the mitsu flange and t3 flange and we can all do the math together

 

[Archer Fabrications]

@bling5tatus http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/fp-manifold-good-for-450-500-hp.409275/ Look at post #4.

Like @Archer Fabrications has mentioned, overall flange sizes between the t3 and mhi are about the same. The main problem is one is round and one is rectangular therefore the transition between the two fight each other hence the adapter.

I agree with @Archer Fabrications that flow velocity is most important when it comes to turbo setups, I do believe that the fp manifold will easily flow enough to get me the 350~400 I’m looking for even know (yes) they both kind of fight each other. Of course if I had the cash at this point I’d be purchasing one of Archers top mount t3 manifolds without question. I still need to purchase a lot of my fuel system and other odds and ends but believe me, I will be picking up one of those Archer manifolds sooner or later.

If your just looking for 3-400hp really anything will work, even the worst of setups... dsms seem to make that power fairly easy as long as boost is there.

 

[DannyE]

@Vegas smith
I do believe that the MHI flange is 2.25” and the T3 is 1.9” tall and 2.3” wide.

I installed the old 14b turbine housing i had onto the 20g and test fitted it on the engine. Just like others have said, it’s a direct fit and there is no contact with the block. I’m thinking I will end up purchasing an evolll housing because that’s about the easiest way to go about getting rid of those unwanted adapter/spacers.


The only issue I ran across was the open dump O2 housing I have was right in the way of the compressor housing elbow. I don’t think I can clock the housing ether because of the waste gate actuator. If I have to, I could just modify the O2 housing which isn’t a problem for me.

@Archer Fabrications thats great to hear from you. I really want to be in the four hundreds. With as light as my car will be I’m hoping to break into the tens but we’ll see.

 

[bling5tatus]

I concede that I've never measured both flanges and assumed the t3 flange was larger in area than the DSM flange. I think the FP manifold is a great manifold and I'll always like cast iron more than tubular for a manifold because of it's heat holding capacity and strength. My car has no problem outputting enough fuel for 450hp using a DSM flanged HTA88.... so take that for what it's worth. I think sometimes people get into this idea that they must go larger on so many parts of their car and end up upgrading things that "don't matter yet". A good method for upgrading your car is as I stated above, look at the systems as a whole, find the bottle neck and improve that. You may find that putting all this intake and exhaust stuff (including turbine housings/manifolds) doesn't make a huge difference when the cams are keeping the amount of flow needed to make the part worth while from happening. I didn't check your profile to see if you have cams yet but I'd highly recommend that upgrade before doing other things because you can squeeze a lot of jam out of mostly stock parts with bigger cams.... and even better when you have upgraded parts that flow well with the bigger cams. It's just a thought, everyone does things a different way and on a budget they can afford. I'm a cheap ass dsm'r so I try to not spend money where it won't benefit the power output of my car.

 

[DannyE]

Oh I know what your saying. I bought the manifold because I knew I wanted an cast fp because of reliability, I bought the 20g because I knew I wanted a 20g or a hx35 it just so happened that Justin had a great deal on an s20g so I nicked it off of him. As far as cams I will most likely be going delta 272 regrindes the engine will have scat rods and 2g piston with acl race bearings, arp main journal and head studs. Because I threw a timing belt I will need to get new valves and guides so I will be going supertech for those. As far as exhaust I’m just going to build a custom three inch from the megan down pipe back.

Then again nothing is set in stone and I can change a few of these things as I go if there is something better I should go with.

Thanks for the input bud, it’s much appreciated.