1G Grounding Kit?

[4gfun]

I don't see any modern ebay grounding kit specific to the DSM. For stuff like this, I always start off on Ebay for ease/cost.

I'd like to take a whirl at a grounding kit because someone tried this at one point and their work was rather messy.

I am leaning towards this:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/homemade-4-gauge-grounding-wire-kit.75889/

I saw some of the EVO links, but I'd rather have a DSM specific guide if possible.

If you were going to use a grounding kit, or just create your own, what would you do?

Do you know what ebay kit you would use....or would you just get some wire and ring terminals? I'd probably still use Ebay so I don't have to run across town.

Thanks!

 

[NHerron]

4 gauge cable with soldered ends? No.

Go to a junkyard and look at GM vehicles. Snag a bunch of the braided ground straps they have strung everywhere. Braided ground straps look a bit cleaner than using 4 friggin gauge red cable with soldered friggen lugs ends. They are sensor grounds for clean signal purposes, not pumping 100 amps.

Heavy grounding is okay for alternator and starter, about it. Everywhere else get some braided strap.

 

[brads]

4 gauge cable with soldered ends? No.

Go to a junkyard and look at GM vehicles. Snag a bunch of the braided ground straps they have strung everywhere. Braided ground straps look a bit cleaner than using 4 friggin gauge red cable with soldered friggen lugs ends. They are sensor grounds for clean signal purposes, not pumping 100 amps.

Most of the sensors are grounded via wires in the harness that go back to the ECU directly, and isolated from the chassis ground. They need a more stable ground that what you get through the chassis/engine. It is usually the noisier and noise immune things like coil/PTU starters alternators headlights, fans etc that are likely to be grounded to the a lug where the ground kits can help. They aren't pumping 100s of amps, but usually they are pumping a good bit.


I used to give people a hard time about these grounding kits because thy thought they'd get more power because it would clean up sensor signals. That is how they were marketed. But it isn't true in most cases.

But the ground wires probably are not a bad idea now anyhow, as the stock ground wires age and corrode. Cleaning up existing OEM ground locations isn't a bad idea either.

I agree a new braided strap is probably a good start. Overkill isn't necessary or beneficial.

 

[19Eclipse90]

For reference:

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[4gfun]

ABSOLUTELY UNREAL.

Thanks very much for this!

 

[4gfun]

All of the grounds are just fine on the car.

 

[steve]

The FSM grounding locations doesn't show the TB ground strap for the IPS which eventually uses #1 between the Intake Manifold and the Firewall. It also doesn't show the ground to the trans mount from the battery which is used for the starter and alternator.

The factory alternator ground path could use improvement. It uses the alternator mounting bracket to the engine block then to the trans to the ground wire and over time those gets a bit crusty.

 

[19Eclipse90]

To bring it all full circle, i.e., to add what Steve pointed out as missing...
question on IPS!! - Throttle body ground strap

Ground to the transmission (below). The encircled bolts are the starter mounting bolts; the ground (large black wire with yellow stripe) is connected to the one on the right. I've seen these attached, instead, to the transmission mounting block, just to the right of that, in the past as well and I don't recall which is "more correct" or if it matters. Pic from: http://vfaq.com/mods/clutch-1G.html

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[NHerron]

Correct, todays vehicle sensors have their own dedicated grounds. Apologies, I've been in old car mode, restoring a friends 1968 Dodge.

Admittedly, my post is halfassed because OP is asking something about an eBay grounding kit. I'm not good with anything less than specifics and don't do general answers.

So, Mr. OP, what exactly are you looking to get out of this said "grounding kit"? Are you trying to replace all the factory grounds with a DSM specific kit, or pondering the idea of individually replacing each one from scratch? Either way, why? If you don't mind me asking.

 

[4gfun]

All, this level of information has helped me resolve a real issue and I am sure that these posts will help someone out in the future.

@NHerron.....

Specifics were given in my initial post in that someone started off with a grounding kit, but didn't do a great job.

Here was the ultimate motivation:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/alternator-not-charging.492006/#post-153509825

If I could not find the cause, I was prepared to use the shotgun/bandaid/whatever apporoach.

 

[NHerron]

Tip, if you're unsure of the integrity of any said cable, perform a voltage drop test. Continuity test vs voltage drop is like buying a car without test driving because the lying SOB salesman 'said' it was a great car.

Suppose your alt issue was in fact, caused by a lack of battery negative reaching alternator negative (case grounded). Take your dvom and place neg or pos probe to alternator case, now take other probe and place on battery negative. In a perfect world you'd get 0.00v, but its not, sorry. I'd be concerned with 0.2v or more. Because if the alt ground is dropping 0.2v+, then the starter is likely dropping 0.5v+ when cranking. And that's just on the ground side. The positive side usually always drops more compared to the ground side.

Next issue with grounding problems is the possibility of electrolysis. I'm not going into great detail but to test- with key off touch dvom neg probe to battery negative. Now take other probe and touch it to a copper wire/pipe/whatever, and dip your copper piece into the coolant. Yes, take radiator cap off and your basically putting the other probe in the coolant. Do not touch any metal, just coolant. The copper trick will show a much more accurate reading is all. Record the voltage reading. Now start the car and watch the reading. Look for any changes. Now start turning everything on in the car that you can and keep watching the meter. I recommend this test because you may still have grounding problems.

 

[4gfun]

Tip, if you're unsure of the integrity of any said cable, perform a voltage drop test. Continuity test vs voltage drop is like buying a car without test driving because the lying SOB salesman 'said' it was a great car.

Suppose your alt issue was in fact, caused by a lack of battery negative reaching alternator negative (case grounded). Take your dvom and place neg or pos probe to alternator case, now take other probe and place on battery negative. In a perfect world you'd get 0.00v, but its not, sorry. I'd be concerned with 0.2v or more. Because if the alt ground is dropping 0.2v+, then the starter is likely dropping 0.5v+ when cranking. And that's just on the ground side. The positive side usually always drops more compared to the ground side.

Next issue with grounding problems is the possibility of electrolysis. I'm not going into great detail but to test- with key off touch dvom neg probe to battery negative. Now take other probe and touch it to a copper wire/pipe/whatever, and dip your copper piece into the coolant. Yes, take radiator cap off and your basically putting the other probe in the coolant. Do not touch any metal, just coolant. The copper trick will show a much more accurate reading is all. Record the voltage reading. Now start the car and watch the reading. Look for any changes. Now start turning everything on in the car that you can and keep watching the meter. I recommend this test because you may still have grounding problems.

Wow, just wow.

Thanks NHerron. I used to be an electronic bench tech at one time. They years have gone by though. I had no idea that voltage drop had any real world use, so I disregarded that part of my training and forgot completely about it.

I am adding this to my memory bank.