Ground wire kit

[Dream_Of_Eagle]

does any 1 know the site that has the pics of the home made ground kit
i seen it before i just cant seem to find it any more

 

[my97mitsGSX]

i ground the firewall, head, transmission, fuel rail, alternator, front frame, strut bar

 

[LightningGSX]

these kits correct faulty stock grounds. nothing more, nothing less.

Good job stating the obvious.

 

[Beaner]

thanks, im glad this thread had to be 20 post long for that to come out.

 

[brads]

since eletricity is my thing and you engineers know that grounding is every thing it is a good idea to do.

basically running a ground wire to your head has a similiar affect of running lower resistance plug wires. if i could draw a schematic you would see why.

If you drew a schematic of the distributorless ignition system with dual output coil, as found on this car, you would see where you were 100% absolutely irrefutably wrong. The current that goes through the plug wires does NOT return to battery ground. Draw it out, and you will see it flows from the coil.... to the plugs.... back to the coil, without going to the battery ground. It does travel through the head, but only between plugs, and the path it takes would not be affected by adding a ground strap from the head to the battery. You must be thinking of your X camaro, which may have benefited from ground straps depending on how its ignition is set up.

also sand paper the metal, or nuts the connectors touch and give them a shot of spray paint to prevent corroision.

common wire kits i have seen run a wire from the throttle boddy, the head, the fire wall.

Cleaning the stock grounds is not a bad idea at all. Painting the surfaces that contact is a bad idea, paint doesn't conduct well.

But adding these extra grounds seems pointless. How much current do you have going from the throttle body to ground? What about the head? And at least on a 2G, the firewall is connected pretty much right to the battery ground. How much bigger and shorter of a wire do you need?

I pretty much have stopped posting to these ground threads, because there is no point in taking the time to explain why they don't work when people don't bother to read the threads after they are posted. There have been a million and one discussions on ground wires before on here, and yet still a few times a week, someone decides to ask the exact same question here in the advanced(snicker) forum instead of looking to see how many times its been asked and answered. I made an exception, since you claimed to be an expert Don't proclaim to be an authority on this, and post bad info. There are enough people around here that buy into this snake oil without you adding fuel to the fire.

Brad

 

[LightningGSX]

I pretty much have stopped posting to these ground threads, because there is no point in taking the time to explain why they don't work when people don't bother to read the threads after they are posted. There have been a million and one discussions on ground wires before on here, and yet still a few times a week, someone decides to ask the exact same question here in the advanced(snicker) forum instead of looking to see how many times its been asked and answered. I made an exception, since you claimed to be an expert Don't proclaim to be an authority on this, and post bad info. There are enough people around here that buy into this snake oil without you adding fuel to the fire.

Brad

I have yet to see a thread where you or anyone else has explained why they don't work.I have seen ZERO factual evidence against them, I must admit I haven't seen much evidence supporting them either.But even though there is some (albeit small and hardly accurate) evidence supporting them, it's outweighed by the zero evidence against.How does that work? I don't know, but Brads thinks it doesn't work, so that must make it so.

Me personally, in my minor and quick experiments, I've seen a reduction of electrical noise just by using small gauge wire(14 gauge, larger gauges yielded the same results) with alligator clips in various places.Nothing that I would consider conclusive, but still more than the opposing argument.Feel free to post and tell me why your factless opinions are more correct than mine, I won't answer, this doesn't need to be argued again.

 

[brads]

I have yet to see a thread where you or anyone else has explained why they don't work.I have seen ZERO factual evidence against them, I must admit I haven't seen much evidence supporting them either.But even though there is some (albeit small and hardly accurate) evidence supporting them, it's outweighed by the zero evidence against.How does that work? I don't know, but Brads thinks it doesn't work, so that must make it so.

It was explained, you just didn't understand it. I just went back and explained why it doesn't help the coils, did you read that? That is one of the most common misconceptions. I can't help that you didn't understand, but hopefully with a few more years of education it, it will sink in for you.

Me personally, in my minor and quick experiments, I've seen a reduction of electrical noise just by using small gauge wire(14 gauge, larger gauges yielded the same results) with alligator clips in various places.Nothing that I would consider conclusive, but still more than the opposing argument.Feel free to post and tell me why your factless opinions are more correct than mine, I won't answer, this doesn't need to be argued again.

Yep, you are probably seeing the effect of inductance in your scope probe ground leads, same as before. Not that it matters anyhow, no one will dissuade you from your belief that your SnapOn kilohertz sample rate automotive scope is the most capable scope in the world, and should be trusted for measuring anything and everything.

 

[redturbo66]

Painting the surfaces that contact is a bad idea, paint doesn't conduct well.
Brad

Wow! You must be an electrician! I love it when people just say things without having knowledge of information firsthand. There is nothing wrong with painting your surfaces. As long as you've got a good metal-to-metal contact, you will have a good ground. Paint your surfaces! They won't corrode and the ground will last longer and be more effective.

 

[brads]

Wow! You must be an electrician! I love it when people just say things without having knowledge of information firsthand. There is nothing wrong with painting your surfaces. As long as you've got a good metal-to-metal contact, you will have a good ground. Paint your surfaces! They won't corrode and the ground will last longer and be more effective.

OK, so when you painted the surface, the "good metal-to-metal contact" you describe is exactly where? Oh thats right, it will be metal to paint( a poor conductor) to paint(also a poor conductor) to metal.

Why on earth would you spend money upgrading your grounds, and then add paint(still a poor conductor)?

 

[redturbo66]

If the grounds are attached first,........you have metal to metal contact. Then you can paint them to protect from corrosion. I'm guessing you thought I was saying to paint the contacts before they were installed ?

 

[brads]

If the grounds are attached first,........you have metal to metal contact. Then you can paint them to protect from corrosion. I'm guessing you thought I was saying to paint the contacts before they were installed ?

You were responding to this comment:

Painting the surfaces that contact is a bad idea, paint doesn't conduct well.

And you said that as long as they have metal to metal contact its OK to paint them. But my comment said that its not good to paint the surfaces that contact. I didn't say anything against painting the non contacting surfaces did I? Seems like you need to work on your reading skills a little before attempting to flame people on the net.

 

[redturbo66]

How old are you? 16 maybe?
Do you really think X camaro was saying to paint the connectors before you attach them?? Any moron would know not to do that. Sounds like you're just having a bad day. Are the kids at school making fun of you again?

 

[LightningGSX]

It was explained, you just didn't understand it. I just went back and explained why it doesn't help the coils, did you read that? That is one of the most common misconceptions. I can't help that you didn't understand, but hopefully with a few more years of education it, it will sink in for you.

I read that, I agree with that actually, and never disputed it.I'm just shy of 30, my "years of education" are over.Its obvious your arrogance over shadows any "years of experience" you have.Please spare me your flawed Ad Hominem logic.

Yep, you are probably seeing the effect of inductance in your scope probe ground leads, same as before. Not that it matters anyhow, no one will dissuade you from your belief that your SnapOn kilohertz sample rate automotive scope is the most capable scope in the world, and should be trusted for measuring anything and everything.

I've actually repeated tests with a Picoscope and various filters and probes, results are still close to the original.I guess the "effects of inductance" are problematic for everything BUT the vehicles electronics.

 

[LightningGSX]

I hardly find my meager tests "evidence".My argument is weak at best, your argument, at best, is non existant.There are only 2 facts here:1. Usually Theory and Practice are very different 2.There are really no facts(real facts, not your imaginary ones) supporting either side in this argument.

I have and will continue to be neutral on this subject.If other people choose to add ground wires to their engines, let them do it, let them formulate their own opinion on this subject.Keep your factless opinions to yourself.Plain and Simple.

 

[brads]

How old are you? 16 maybe?
Do you really think X camaro was saying to paint the connectors before you attach them?? Any moron would know not to do that.

Any moron would also know that adding a ground wire to a place that has no current flowing will not help conduction, and yet he recommends that. I was clarifying his comment about sanding and painting, since he simply said to paint the parts after you sand them. You want to sand the surfaces that make contact, reassemble it, then paint the surfaces that don't make contact.

Sounds like you're just having a bad day. Are the kids at school making fun of you again?

You are the one who jumped in to try to make a point, without bothering to read what I said. Read and reread before you post, it seems like you don't understand things the first time through.

Brad

 

[brads]

I hardly find my meager tests "evidence".My argument is weak at best, your argument, at best, is non existant.There are only 2 facts here:1. Usually Theory and Practice are very different 2.There are really no facts(real facts, not your imaginary ones) supporting either side in this argument.

I agree about your findings not really being evidence. I also agree that I haven't taken the time to run a thorough test to disprove. But a solid understanding of how electronics work is enough to know that this stuff is overhyped. I have taken the time to look at the way the ECU is wired in, and there is just nothing there that a ground wire will help in terms of performance as long as your grounds on the DSM are in good working order. I'm not saying it won't possibly help other brands of cars.

I have and will continue to be neutral on this subject.If other people choose to add ground wires to their engines, let them do it, let them formulate their own opinion on this subject. Keep your factless opinions to yourself.Plain and Simple.

If someone else wants to put grounds on, great for them. Just don't go out and post that it gave you some sort of performance benefit, without some sort of hard facts to back it up. Fundamental electrical concepts in conjunction with common sense, which seem to be beyond most of the people arguing here, would point out that they don't help performance at all.
Look at it this way. If someone said painting their car pink made it a lot faster, would you just blindly accept it, or would not believe until some sort of real proof was given? Would you point out how absurd that is, if everyone started buying into it, without any proof? And painting a car pink is a good analogy here, since it seems very ridiculous to anyone with common sense, much like ground wires seem ridiculous to people who understand electronics.

Brad

 

[redturbo66]

Hey Brad! Maybe you can help me work on F/A-18s. I see that you're right down the road from me over here in Cali. You're knowledge of electronics amazes me :laugh: You could probably teach me a few things.....I'm an electronics tech just like you

 

[LandoAWD]

If all of you would kindly shut the fuck up with the bickering back and forth about who knows what, that would be great.

Stick to the thread topic, and keep it from getting personal. Thanks.

 

[brads]

Hey Brad! Maybe you can help me work on F/A-18s. I see that you're right down the road from me over here in Cali. You're knowledge of electronics amazes me :laugh: You could probably teach me a few things.....I'm an electronics tech just like you

Sorry, I went to a 4 year school and got an engineering degree. I'm not an electronics tech I design ECUs and ignition systems for a living. Someone has to understand how the stuff works

 

[redturbo66]

wow! the maturity level sure is high

 

[Mike1992]

Didnt Lando say "kindly shut the #### up with the bickering back and forth" ? I feel something bad is going to happen

 

[ldstang50]

i know this isn't the classifieds, but since its kinda on topic. i have a full grounding kit for sale, actually two of them. red thick wire. bout a 1/2'' in diameter. $30

 

[brads]

wow! the maturity level sure is high

Says the guy who just bothered to brag about being an electronics tech on F18s. Sorry, not all of us can be electronics techs like you

 

[redturbo66]

I wish that I had $30 to buy those off you. I've been looking to buy a set but the only ones I find are usually around $50. I could really use the extra horsepower right now.

 

[LandoAWD]

:thumbdown

 

[cubedmayhem]

Hey has anyone used one of the ground wire kit on there car? The kind were you connect all the engine ground points to one point. All the ads claim they do alot, im sure they do help but will i notice. I can get on off ebay for $30 shipped. Im going to order it but was wondering if anyone else has installed it.