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greengoblin's AWD Project

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,392
2,707
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I bet you had to buy that level because of how wide the wing is LOL i will be doing the same! mines not as wide though so easier to find one that works well,

My metal will be in soon for my wing mounts aswell, i think im the only one going from the back of the car! Like past the bumper then up/over,
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,392
2,707
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Im using the rear bumper support area in the frame rails, its suoer strong and ive made aquare tubes that slot in and bolt down useing bigger bolts, if i find it pushes it down i can run a bar from the cage down, its all been thought out pretty well or as well as i can.

Its possibly only a few inches further back then yours and the others by the time its finished, also making mine height and forward/back adjustable just to make sure i can get the best setup for the whole car, i am limited to it aswell but nice to have it,

Are your brackets going to the trunk sides or intonthe floor area that most do? Weld brsckets to the top of the frame rail!
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
All my mounts land on top of plates that are located over the oem frame rails. Your mounts will be more like 12" or more futher back than mine depending on there you exit the bumper cover as to where my loads feed into the chassis. It also was going to make the wing mounting solution heavier if I went with bumper mount idea. So with Andrew's insights and weight concerns I went with what you see. Actually it's still over built but hey triple element will be know problem if needed. I look forward to seeing what you do. All your work is awesome.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,392
2,707
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
The lower mount will b alot further back yes, the wing platform / chord will be not that much further bsck then yours i think, metals in now so i can get woking in it, i also wanted it back further because as ou say weight! I need more back there being FWD i feel as if the rear can us some more since my tank will be smaller and lighter i have to add som somehow! And i gestimate the weight to be around 6 kg total oveall once finishd and bolted in! And i also wanted to be different as you possibly know i like to be haha

And thanks for you kind words! Your work is also awesome and very inspiring and builds like yours and others is what helps me want to progress further
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
The lower mount will b alot further back yes, the wing platform / chord will be not that much further bsck then yours i think, metals in now so i can get woking in it, i also wanted it back further because as ou say weight! I need more back there being FWD i feel as if the rear can us some more since my tank will be smaller and lighter i have to add som somehow! And i gestimate the weight to be around 6 kg total oveall once finishd and bolted in! And i also wanted to be different as you possibly know i like to be haha

And thanks for you kind words! Your work is also awesome and very inspiring and builds like yours and others is what helps me want to progress further
Adding any weight is always a bad idea unless your rule say you have to add some. If that is the case you still want to reduce your polar moments (not having weight hanging off either end) so keeping it as far inboard as you can is best. Also as you move the wing mounts futher back you increase the jacking effect in the front and can make balancing the car difficult. That how it was explained to me and also how I read it in books like Tune to Win. That being said I just went with what I think is best and by no means saying I'm correct.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,392
2,707
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Adding any weight is always a bad idea unless your rule say you have to add some. If that is the case you still want to reduce your polar moments (not having weight hanging off either end) so keeping it as far inboard as you can is best. Also as you move the wing mounts futher back you increase the jacking effect in the front and can make balancing the car difficult. That how it was explained to me and also how I read it in books like Tune to Win. That being said I just went with what I think is best and by no means saying I'm correct.
I understand the weight thing, im just shifting stuff around and using what i can to place weight at areas. Infact thinking about it some mou ting ways i have seen on these cars mine i dont think will weight alot more then some others, i am also not going to be classed by weight so i am free for that,

I also read that the wing over the back can have bad effects but with the front spliter i have in mind it would be ok to do this. My chord is only 300 and its 1650mm wide and a single so i think i will be fine for balancing it out front to rear ok. (I hope) its all a game and trial and error,
 

Techn0Nut1996

Supporting Member
257
94
Jan 20, 2017
Ames, Iowa
This build is awesome! Props for the amount of work you've put into this car, pretty inspiring actually. I spent my entire lunch break reading though the thread and you're doing some amazing stuff. I do have a question though regarding a picture a couple pages back:

I noticed (I think, maybe I'm seeing this wrong) that the wing will actually be mounted inside the trunk and I was wondering how you got the holes in the trunk lid lined up so well for the mount. I've never been able to get situations like that to work out well enough for me to be happy with them and yours look perfect.
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
This build is awesome! Props for the amount of work you've put into this car, pretty inspiring actually. I spent my entire lunch break reading though the thread and you're doing some amazing stuff. I do have a question though regarding a picture a couple pages back:


I noticed (I think, maybe I'm seeing this wrong) that the wing will actually be mounted inside the trunk and I was wondering how you got the holes in the trunk lid lined up so well for the mount. I've never been able to get situations like that to work out well enough for me to be happy with them and yours look perfect.

The hardest part was making sure that the mounts were at the correct height. That really took a lot of measuring and mock up to get them perfect. As for cutting the slots that was pretty straightforward. I used white out on the ends of the clevis to mark the underside of the hatch. Then took a very and I mean very small drillbit and drilled a pilot hole then. Then very slowly expanded with different size drillbits until I reached one of the edges of the clevis. Once that happened very slowly opened up the hole with both the drill and my micro files working all the slots pretty much at the same time until very slowly the hatch would fully close. I have about a 1/8 or so gap all the way around. That's pretty important so if you lower the hatch off angle you do not get bound up. You should note that "very slowly" was used a lot. I spent a few hours on it so I didn't end up with an extra window. :)
 

Techn0Nut1996

Supporting Member
257
94
Jan 20, 2017
Ames, Iowa
The hardest part was making sure that the mounts were at the correct height. That really took a lot of measuring and mock up to get them perfect. As for cutting the slots that was pretty straightforward. I used white out on the ends of the clevis to mark the underside of the hatch. Then took a very and I mean very small drillbit and drilled a pilot hole then. Then very slowly expanded with different size drillbits until I reached one of the edges of the clevis. Once that happened very slowly opened up the hole with both the drill and my micro files working all the slots pretty much at the same time until very slowly the hatch would fully close. I have about a 1/8 or so gap all the way around. That's pretty important so if you lower the hatch off angle you do not get bound up. You should note that "very slowly" was used a lot. I spent a few hours on it so I didn't end up with an extra window. :)
That's smart using white out, and maybe my problem is I'm not patient enough LOL. I was also wondering about if the hatch closed crooked it would just ram into the clevis, so thanks for explaining that as well. Good luck with the rest of the project, I'll definitely keep an eye out for updates!
 

greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
So it's been a while since I posted an update so let get started. First shortly after my last post I had the opportunity to work with my good friend Carl Marcum and the EvoBro racing team at the Pike's Peak 95th International Hill Climb. It to date is my favorite event I've attended. Amazing all around. Here are a very few pics. I have way way more but this is really a build thread right?

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Garage built totally and fast as hell. Carl and the EvoBro Racing team now has several records for hill climb all over the Pacific Northwest.

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Some of my favorite cars.
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greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
So after that here is what I've been up to .

Wing mounts have been cut by my good friend Brain and confirmed to fit. So they will go off to be anodized soon with some other bits. These are just the rough pics.

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greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
I picked up a few more bits of the puzzle.
BW 7163 EFR

Sent off some fun stuff to all around badass Tim at www.tmzperformance.com
Rear end and Transfer case rebuilt.

Boostin Performance great guys to work with. I mean how damn cool is it that this was made!
*Boostin Performance 1990-99 DSM & Evo 1-3 Manual Transmission Billet Bearing Housing** (DSM/Evo 1-3)
I mean how damn cool is it that this was made


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greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
So we are now working on mounting the front splitter new radiator support and mocking up the IC and stuff. You may notice my hood is a different color. Well that because I accidentally purchased a second AMB V1 kit. Long story but it could not be passed up. I also mailed a large chuck of my aero kit to help John rebuild his car after his tire exploded and destroyed most of the front driver side. It made having two seem like a really good idea.

First I had to do some bonding. to the splitter. I used 3M Scotch-Weld Epoxy Adhesive from Dragon Plate dragonplate.com . It is some serious epoxy. It has long air cure cycle so we got creative with some chicken lights and a digital IR thermometer. FYI it brought the part up to 200 degrees no problem. We actually had to really watch it to keep it from go too high! The angle bit that matches the bumper shape is actually a tile trim border I found online. That really made the job easier.

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Not that pretty but it's not coming off. Did I mention that the epoxy was amazing.

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greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
With that done I'm starting on the real support for the splitter. I had to make new hood pin supports. since I chopped out some stuff. I also extended the frame rails and used a tubing roller for the front bar so it match the curve of the front clip. Next up is making some brackets, radiator support and splitter support rods. I want to be able to remove the bumper, splitter and lower radiator supports. That catch us all up for now.




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greengoblin

Supporting Vendor
1,573
391
Mar 10, 2006
McKinney, Texas
So i haven't touched the car since Te group buy for may braces started and every bit of free time I have has gone to making them. I did however pic up another piece to the puzzle. Eaton Motorworks is making bolt on swirl pot that simple put are to die for. Brandon's done previous work for me that turned out amazing. Looking forward to my unit coming in.

Take a look here to see what he has cooked up for us.


https://www.eatonmotorworks.com/blog/dsm/evo-vortex-capsule




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gofer

Moderator
8,104
1,272
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona
He does do amazing work and I almost pulled the trigger on that swirl pot but not sure how it's going to run coolant temp wise without a t-stat, not sure the car would ever warm up to operating temp.
 

chrysler kid

Proven Member
2,303
413
Dec 20, 2002
Mckinney, Texas
Heads up he doesn't have a connection for the lower radiator hose so you'd need to run the 6 bolt water pipe.


Swirl pot is a neat idea. V8 guys have been using vapor steam ports for years now, so its not out of the ordinary to diy one for a budget build as well (the one below actually has 2 vapor vent pots ) they don't swirl, so it would be interesting to see if the swirl actually reduced cooling system pressure as well as temperatures by conducting heat and fluid with no loss in flow from uneven pressure areas. Seems like a very engineered solution. Thermal dynamics is fun !

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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,392
2,707
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
He does do amazing work and I almost pulled the trigger on that swirl pot but not sure how it's going to run coolant temp wise without a t-stat, not sure the car would ever warm up to operating temp.
if you want a stat then you need to keep and modify the oem housing then have an external swirl pot instead
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,392
2,707
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Heads up he doesn't have a connection for the lower radiator hose so you'd need to run the 6 bolt water pipe.


Swirl pot is a neat idea. V8 guys have been using vapor steam ports for years now, so its not out of the ordinary to diy one for a budget build as well (the one below actually has 2 vapor vent pots ) they don't swirl, so it would be interesting to see if the swirl actually reduced cooling system pressure as well as temperatures by conducting heat and fluid with no loss in flow from uneven pressure areas. Seems like a very engineered solution. Thermal dynamics is fun !

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the lower hose will go straight into the pump side NOT the swirl pot!
 

gofer

Moderator
8,104
1,272
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona
Heads up he doesn't have a connection for the lower radiator hose so you'd need to run the 6 bolt water pipe.
You'd just have to modify the 2g water pipe to curve out and down from the block like a 1g for the lower radiator hose, with a welder anything is possible! LOL
 
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