good fuel/air/turbo set up????

[xrotaryxtsi]

i want to go with an evo iii 16g turbo with internal wastegate, walbro 255 pump, fic 750cc injectors, apexi afc neo, gm-maft, fmic with 3" pipes, and greddy bov.

Looking for a quick street weekend machine. somewhere in the mid to low 13s

do you think this would get me there?

are there any changes or anything else i need to add to this set up?

 

[jumpfroggy]

Might have some roughness with the big injectors + afc. Plus, I think you'd only need around 650's for the 16g. Plus, if you're running the BOV vented to atmosphere you should know what that'll do (read a bit, it's not ideal).

Have you read the tuning guide? Do you plan to follow it for everything leading to this upgrade? Just curious about your plans.

 

[oldman]

1. You can go low 13's with a T28, evo3 really isn't that much of an upgrade from T28.

2. You will DEFINITELY need an AFPR for the 255.

3. You will not be able to properly tune for anything larger than 680s via SAFC or MAFT. Either go DSM link or go with 650s.

4. Dump the MAFT, you don't need it, your 2G mas will take you well beyond 400whp. A $300 venting price tag is not worth it for something you'll soon grow out of (I hope ) anyway.

5. You'll need a logger.

 

[xrotaryxtsi]

so if i go with 650cc injectors, smaller fuel pump, gm maft, afc, and a bov that doesnt shoot to the atmosphere, will i still need an afpr?

i'm really looking for a solid turbo set up.

 

[xrotaryxtsi]

and as far as a logger for what i'm looking for what would be the best one to go with?

 

[HondaStylez]

A logger is definately not nessesary for 13 second power levels. Neither are 750's.

Get the 255hp, AFPR, 550's, AFC, the Evo 3, the exhaust, and an intake.... and run 13's all day long. You don't even need a front mount unless you want one, however, being able to make back to back pulls without melting your sidemount is always good, so a FMIC was a good choice.

 

[oldman]

A logger is definately not nessesary for 13 second power levels.

How will he tune, an a/f gauge?

being able to make back to back pulls without melting your sidemount is always good

The term you're looking for is heat soak, meaning overrunning the IC's ability to cool, you don't litterally melt ICs.

 

[HondaStylez]

Yea as a matter of fact he will use an A/F gauge. They make these things called widebands now, forgive me for assuming that anyone with a modified car is using one. It should be a requirement. Logger tuning = hacking. Get a wideband and do it the right way. The more power my car makes the less I use the logger, it's only for fine tuning, something he won't need for a 13 second car.

Sarcasm owns you. But for the record, my sidemount used to get hot enough to burn my hand... on the cold side outlet.

 

[xrotaryxtsi]

i'm going with 650cc injectors 190 fuel pump gm maft probably sticking with my t28

getting a data logger

has anyone used this one?

www.pocketlogger.com

?????????

 

[HondaStylez]

Yea that's the one I use/used. It serves the purpose. I hope and pray that you get a wideband and tune on the dyno. You'll eventually see how ghetto this "log tuning" on the street is.

 

[Zmann42087]

Plus, if you're running the BOV vented to atmosphere you should know what that'll do (read a bit, it's not ideal).

If he goes with the GM-MAF and Translator setup, he will be able to vent his BOV without any issues.

4. Dump the MAFT, you don't need it, your 2G mas will take you well beyond 400whp. A $300 venting price tag is not worth it for something you'll soon grow out of (I hope ) anyway.

I might be missing something but where did the 2g MAS come from? He is driving a 1g and his current mod list says he has a GM-MAFT.

 

[xrotaryxtsi]

haha well i have a fmic and a gm-maf

waiting on the translator. then ill work that in but i want to get a new bov, afc and by the sounds of things a logger.

wide band over the logger or both?

 

[oldman]

Yea as a matter of fact he will use an A/F gauge. They make these things called widebands now, forgive me for assuming that anyone with a modified car is using one. It should be a requirement. Logger tuning = hacking. Get a wideband and do it the right way. The more power my car makes the less I use the logger, it's only for fine tuning, something he won't need for a 13 second car.

Nice try on the "every modified car uses a wideband. Is wideband a better logging device? Yes, but the key word there is logging, eyeing a wideband gauge alone is a good monitoring tool but not a fine tuning tool by far, you would know this if you have ever compared a logged wideband value to your guage reading.

Sarcasm owns you. But for the record, my sidemount used to get hot enough to burn my hand... on the cold side outlet.

Lack of sense of humor owns you!!

 

[oldman]

I might be missing something but where did the 2g MAS come from? He is driving a 1g and his current mod list says he has a GM-MAFT.

My bad, I miss read, I still think a 2G mas will do a better job in tuning.

 

[HondaStylez]

wide band over the logger or both?

Wideband. A logger without a wideband is useless unless you like tuning in the dark.


Oldman, that's why you buy a wideband that can log or use a dyno that has one. Innovative anyone?

And again, for the record, when making a 3rd gear dyno pull or 4th gear street pull, the values seen on the gauge at RPM points are dead on accurate with what plays back on the wideband log afterwards. The only time just looking at a gauge doesn't work is if you tune your 500+hp car in 2nd gear.

 

[xrotaryxtsi]

well aside from the arguing thanks for the info.

 

[selmerguy]

So when does the wideband tell when you are knocking...? If you want to tune right you use both. My wideband is picked up the the EGRT in the logger. That way you can see everything when you log. Tuning by wideband alone is not telling you what your timing is or IDC or any of that other important stuff. And we all know you can have a perfect AFR and timing can make the motor knock and then boom!!!!! So buy a logger just to be safe. Then if you can afford it a wideband is nice. I love mine.

Oh an when all your stuff gets in, tune the idle with the MAFT. You will understand when you hook it up. With those big injectors you will have to compinsate for the deat time. So set the MAFT for 650's and you will have to richen the idle on the maft to get the AFR right. Then you have to take fuel away with the safc during driving rpms. Have fun and listen to oldman he knows his stuff.

 

[HondaStylez]

Knowing where your timing is does a lot of good when you can't do anything about it. And tuning for no knock is also tuning for no power. Don't give SAFC tuning advice unless you really know how to tune with an SAFC. Logs are so far beyond inconsistant it's not even funny. Shoot for a safe AFR, varify decent timing curve with the logger, you're done.

 

[oldman]

You're the type of guy that can never be wrong because your position constantly spins with the discussion. First you said this,

A logger is definately not nessesary for 13 second power levels.

Which seem to suggest that a logger is only for higher power applications. Then you said,

The more power my car makes the less I use the logger, it's only for fine tuning, something he won't need for a 13 second car.

If it's not for a 13 sec car and it's for higher power cars as well as fine tuning but you use it less with more power, when exactly is logger useful? Your next quotes,

A logger without a wideband is useless unless you like tuning in the dark.

and

that's why you buy a wideband that can log or use a dyno that has one.

Which seems to contradict each other. You then ended with this,

Shoot for a safe AFR, varify decent timing curve with the logger,you're done.

You have managed to go from "logger is an overkill for you at 13s" -> "logger is for fine tuning" ->"logger is useless" -> "logger is some what useful" all in one thread, all because you couldn't admit you made a mistake by ASSuming OP had a wideband.

As a different matter, you need to put your attitude away, learn to agree to disagree and stay civil in your posts, no need to be nasty to anyone. Considered yourself warned.

 

[HondaStylez]

My point was the same the entire topic. He doesn't need a logger. If you lack reading comprehension skills that is not my fault. Go back to high school.

I said it can be useful for fine tuning, but is far from nessesary. If he doesn't have a wideband, he needs to get one. Tuning with a logger alone is hacking, end of debate. Tuning with a wideband is a nessesity, using the logger is not. He does not need a logger.

Did I make myself clear enough? Like usual, you see anyone that disagrees with you as "nasty" an "asshole" etc etc. Grow up and admit when you're wrong. Do you really need to be 100% right about everything in order to sleep at night? Give me a break.

 

[HondaStylez]

If it's not for a 13 sec car and it's for higher power cars as well as fine tuning but you use it less with more power, when exactly is logger useful?

So you did get my point.

Never.

Maybe for monitoring engine vitals. But as a tuning tool? Spend your money elsewhere.

 

[MyÜberFastGSX]

Whoa guys. Lets all get along now .

Lets not forget that old man has been doing this for longer than some of us have been able to drive.

 

[HondaStylez]

So that makes him infallible. Speak for yourself, there are plenty of people far more experienced than him. Assuming that just because someone has "new member" status they must have no experience is a poor assumption. Almost as poor an assuption as assuming that because someone has "wiseman" next to their name they actually know something. Remember, "assume" makes an ass out of u and me.

 

[c4uldr0n]

such a good start turned into a flame, sad...

I happen to like my GM MAF-T COMBO, I'm not sure if I would buy it just to vent... putting a filter on the BOV (recirculation) would be good for cruising still, since you would be at vacuum and sucking in unfiltered air, the one and only reason not to vent to atmosphere.

 

[oldman]

I happen to like my GM MAF-T COMBO, I'm not sure if I would buy it just to vent... putting a filter on the BOV (recirculation) would be good for cruising still, since you would be at vacuum and sucking in unfiltered air, the one and only reason not to vent to atmosphere.

That and losing the stream of air which can help keep your turbo spooled in between shifts when properly re-directed towards the compressor.