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FWD drag racing help

Posted by jpmxrider489, Nov 15, 2020

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  1. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

    2,149
    39
    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    So I got the car all together. Dyno my hx35 as you all know at 530 and everything I read this is easily a 11 second car but I cant even get into the 13s or 14s.
    I am now a manual. I am fwd. But i cant get traction at all. The tires are Falken Azenis r16+? But they are decent with low miles. So ran just wastegate pressure which is 10 and I dont really spin but I also dont move anywhere fast. I turned it up higher ran like 15psi in 1st and 2nd but still ran a 16 at 106. Maybe the trans is the issue? I now it doesnt like being shifted above 5k. Once I shifted to 3rd ran 30psi and spun a little shifted to 4th to the finish. Next pass turned 3rd gear down to avoid spin which worked but still ran a 16. Maybe I am missing the technique of racing? Tried launching at 3500 and 4500 and not really much difference. Also tried a quick dump of the clutch and a quick slip which seemed to work better. My issue is definitely first half of the track and gears 1 and 2. I dont really have daily issues with the tranny at all. The tranny is stock other than the flywheel and clutch. What should they be able to shift at during a race?

    All my suspension has been redone. All volk arms, bushings, shocks, and springs. There isn't much that isn't new.

    So as I see the traction issue, I could get the better tires but I drive a hour to the track and back. I could also get a LSD but thats like 1k. I feel like a awd swap would be the better choice and could be done for 1k give or take.

    I also see other fwd people in the 11s or 12s. Kinda looking for opinions on what to do for technique and maybe the correct upgrade path here.
     

    Street Build 364  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  2. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    6,916
    3,068
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    A Qualfe front dif would let that thing hook better and not torque steer.
    I bet you are blowing off the tires right now. My son went with that setup in a Spyder and a set of DOT slicks. It helped alot but with your hp, you may have to peddle it some.
    Those are my experiences with FWD and his car was a auto car with a 20g. Ran really good!
    We both are in AWD platforms now.
    It's alot of work to swap the FWD to AWD but I happen to have a 90 Talon AWD and a 90 Laser FWD that were built on the same day at the same plant and the same color, so it is surely possible as the assembly line just switched over to FWD units in the late shift that day. My AWD was born at 6 or 7 in the morning and the FWD was built late in the evening.
    Fun facts! :thumb:
    Hopefully a little help too! :)
    Marty
     

    Street Build 5K  29

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    14.74 @ 117.04 · 1G DSM

    2K  15

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    948  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 1K  7

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 6K  15  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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  3. blkgst97

    blkgst97 Proven Member

    401
    17
    Joined Aug 4, 2009
    Bonney Lake, Washington
    Do you have any videos? Are you saying you’re shifting through every gear at 5k? That could be the problem right there. Also with that kind of power and no slicks a LSD would be a night and day difference for you. I know you said falkens but What tire size are you running?
     

    2K  5

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  4. 97_4g63t

    97_4g63t Supporting VIP

    470
    46
    Joined Jun 6, 2010
    carlsbad, New Mexico
    Are you using nlts? It makes shifting a lot easier at higher rpms. You need some slicks honestly. Not sure how long the stock trans will last at that power level though. Check how long your shifts are taking and how much your boost drops between gears. What are your other times and mph? 60' 1/8th etc.
     

    3K  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.541 @ 128.35 · 2G DSM
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  5. biglady112

    biglady112 Proven Member

    1,698
    245
    Joined May 20, 2004
    Commerce City, Colorado
    Slicks will fix the car. We have been bottom 10’s without issue. The chassis needs more work to use the power we make. 9’s are not too far off if the rest of the car will work.
     
    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  6. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    3,148
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    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Welded diff, slicks, boost by gear, launch control can get you into the single digits.
     

    Drag Race Build 4K  10  24

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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    1990TSIAWDTALON likes this.
  7. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I also had a 20g at 28psi without much spin in any gear. The holset boost comes on so fast and that why it blows the tires. So I can get a diff to hook better for 1k. But would it be more worth it going awd? 4 tires spin vs 2? Im not sure if im using NLTS but Ill look into it. Boost does fall between shifts but picks up in less than a second. The issue with running dot slicks is the hour drive to the track. I would like to avoid unneeded wear. I believe the tire size is 225/45/17 Which is all I can fit. Ill have to get back to you all with the time slip info. But like I said. I have 10 psi with no spin in 1st and 2nd. All my time is up top. I am willing to do the work for the awd swap. As Im going to need one anyway. Either rebuilt my fwd auto or when my manual breaks rebuild it. But at that point for cost for a awd swap would be close to building out any fwd tranny.
     

    Street Build 364  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  8. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    oklahoma city, Oklahoma
    Here is what i spot in this thread. 5k shifts?
    Not spinning in first and second? How? What do datalogs suggest?
    Awd swap cost the same as a trans rebuild.....not on your life. Just happen to have a fresh awd trans laying around? Post the whole slip.
     

    Street Build 3K  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  9. blkgst97

    blkgst97 Proven Member

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    Bonney Lake, Washington
    That kind of power with an open dif and 225/45r17s is got to be horrible. I have a Wavetrac LSD and 255/40r17 Toyo R1Rs for my street setup and on a Dry sunny day I still spin at the top of second. I’m Running a FP 76HTZ at 28psi and I’m ESTIMATING about 450 maybe fwhp. There is a lot that goes into trying to keep traction in a front wheel drive car. Motor mounts, limiting weight transfer, LSD, Good tires, boost that comes on linear will help.
     

    2K  5

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Here Is a log. ill post slip tomorrow. Its not with me.

    I have all upgraded 75a motor mounts or there solid, cant recall. All suspension bushings, arms, and components are new including the alignment. Weight transfer is new to me. My koni shocks have adjustable rebound. But otherwise I dont know how to go about doing that. Limiting weight, the car has no ac, heater core, emissions, and all ducting removed. Basically all unnecessary components are gone. Im not sure how to make the holset boost come on linear. I played with link to try and was didnt come up with good results. Also changed WG springs multiple times to help. My tires are decent. Im not sure I can fit anything else because of it being lowered with tein springs and the koni shocks.

    Which brings me back to the point of should I bother fighting with trying to get traction on fwd or just go awd. I did the auto to manual in a day. I can probably pull the awd swap out in a weekend or two.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2020

    Street Build 364  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  11. blkgst97

    blkgst97 Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 4, 2009
    Bonney Lake, Washington
    For what you’re looking to do it’s probably easier to do the AWD swap if you have a donor car lined up. But also there is more to replace/break with the AWD so it becomes a matter of goals/money/time and if you have another car to drive. Really it’s your call. Is it more worth it to you to spend a few days swapping stuff around and have a much better control over traction or fighting with the FWD to get it dialed enough to make use of your power. I chose to keep the FWD but I may change that going forward if I get tired of this power level and want more. It’s all personal preference.
     

    2K  5

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  12. 97_4g63t

    97_4g63t Supporting VIP

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    carlsbad, New Mexico
    look into nlts and give it a try. Your shifting under 5k and your shifts are taking a full second. Using nlts mine stay around .25 .3 seconds. You are losing all your boost between shifts. I wouldn't throw the towel in with fwd till you actually learn and get it descent.
     

    3K  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.541 @ 128.35 · 2G DSM
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  13. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

    2,149
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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    So I did the auto to manual swap. Still using the auto wire harness. Would the wire install be the same?
     

    Street Build 364  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  14. 97_4g63t

    97_4g63t Supporting VIP

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    Joined Jun 6, 2010
    carlsbad, New Mexico
    I'm not sure about that.
    Follow directions here and see if you have everything. https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/ecmlink-nlts-wire-install-setup.391091/
    If not I would think you could add it. Maybe someone else more knowledgeable on the auto harness can chime in.
     

    3K  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    11.541 @ 128.35 · 2G DSM
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  15. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

    2,149
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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Here are the time slips. The log is posted above. The auto ones were 14 seconds with spinning. The manual was 15.
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 364  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  16. blkgst97

    blkgst97 Proven Member

    401
    17
    Joined Aug 4, 2009
    Bonney Lake, Washington
    your mph has 12s in it easily but you have to do something about your shifting and ability to keep traction. Either some slicks or LSD or something because those 2.9 60 fts are killing you. My first time out on slicks when I was running the 68hta on pump gas i ran a 13.1 at 112 with a 2.1 60ft and I missed my 1-2 shift cause I got locked out. This was my first ever attempt on slicks and I only launched at 4K because I didn’t know how they would respond. I only got 3 passes in after that but as they got stickier I bogged off the line and my 60ft times went up to 2.3-2.4. Next year I will actually up the launch RPM and see what happens I was just scared of how they would react and didn’t want to break anything. If you do something to drop those 60ft times wether it’s slicks or a LSD or something I think you would be quite surprised at how your times drop.
     

    2K  5

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  17. jpmxrider489

    jpmxrider489 Supporting VIP

    2,149
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    Joined Apr 4, 2010
    pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    So i debated on the lsd or slicks or both. But as I mentioned the is street driven a few times a week during nice days. But the drive to the track is a hour. With slicks and the low tread wear rating I would be considered about unnecasary wear. Plus with no lsd and slicks, wouldnt I still spin once tire wearing the slicks quickly? Im currently playing with boost by gear. Trying with ereor correction and without. i Just wired nlts but have yet to try it.
     

    Street Build 364  1

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  3

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · automatic · 2G DSM
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  18. blkgst97

    blkgst97 Proven Member

    401
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    Joined Aug 4, 2009
    Bonney Lake, Washington
    Have you considered a second set of wheels to put on at the track? You should try and reach out to Richard33 or something like that. I believe he is/was running 26” slicks with an open dif at 600 fwhp and faired pretty well. Maybe you can get him to chime in.
     

    2K  5

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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