Spyder Fuel Pump Priming

[red_gsx]

In simple terms, my fuel pump does not prime at all. I've looked and asked around and have found out that when the key is turned to the on/acc position the pump should build pressure. Well mine doesn't do that. After a few cranks it'll still build the pressure and the car will turn on and run just fine. I'm not too keen to hear my engine grinding for a while everytime I start the car. The pump in the is a walboro 255 that was rewired. Where should I start trouble shooting? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[SBR Joe]

It doesn't prime on the ON position, it kick on with the ignition switch. The only way to "prime" it is either get an AEM, which is a little excessive, or get a pocketlogger and you can go to test/ prime pump.

Joe
Slowboy Racing

 

[twicks69]

It can also be likely that your relay for your rewired fuel pump is not switching on due to low voltage at the relay itself. I just had the same issue with my eclipse (AEM/255hp rewired), where the relay was not kicking on.

My issue was that the battery I am using is an Odyssey PC680 which only puts out 220CCA @ 32*, and I was in much colder conditions.

With a warm battery, the car would kick right on, with no problems.

I took out the 10Gauge I was running for the rewire, and went to 8 AWG HIGH strand car audio wire with a fresh relay.

First off, check the battery voltage using a multimeter. Then go back to the relay itself, and check the voltage there. Then either put a charger on (50amp) or jumper cables, and check voltages again. If you are seeing low voltage at the relay before, and it increases after adding a charging source, your battery or the wire used are probably to blame. If the voltage is the high (atleast 10volts) at the relay and it isn't clicking on, then it is probably the relay.

If you have to replace the relay (30amp, 4-prong, 85/86/87/30) -- they have them at NAPA for good prices, and they are always in stock...otherwise Radioshack has them too.


When I changed over to 8 AWG, I also was also doing it because the 10AWG was a low strand count, and I went to twin pumps which required a 40amp, 5-prong w/ 2 signals relay.


I hope this information helps you in getting the pump to turn on.

 

[SBR Joe]

It can also be likely that your relay for your rewired fuel pump is not switching on due to low voltage at the relay itself. I just had the same issue with my eclipse (AEM/255hp rewired), where the relay was not kicking on.

My issue was that the battery I am using is an Odyssey PC680 which only puts out 220CCA @ 32*, and I was in much colder conditions.

With a warm battery, the car would kick right on, with no problems.

I took out the 10Gauge I was running for the rewire, and went to 8 AWG HIGH strand car audio wire with a fresh relay.

First off, check the battery voltage using a multimeter. Then go back to the relay itself, and check the voltage there. Then either put a charger on (50amp) or jumper cables, and check voltages again. If you are seeing low voltage at the relay before, and it increases after adding a charging source, your battery or the wire used are probably to blame. If the voltage is the high (atleast 10volts) at the relay and it isn't clicking on, then it is probably the relay.

If you have to replace the relay (30amp, 4-prong, 85/86/87/30) -- they have them at NAPA for good prices, and they are always in stock...otherwise Radioshack has them too.


When I changed over to 8 AWG, I also was also doing it because the 10AWG was a low strand count, and I went to twin pumps which required a 40amp, 5-prong w/ 2 signals relay.


I hope this information helps you in getting the pump to turn on.

keep in mine you said you have AEM. Your pump will prime with AEM...not without it.

Joe
Slowboy Racing

 

[topnotchgsx]

Red GSX, what exactly is happening, I am asking because when I get in my car and try to start it, it will turn over and over and over before it cranks and sometimes I have to give it gas just to get it to start. I have no idea what is happening. I have a walbro 255lph and i have AEM EMS. Also my car is tuned to crap right now, so it will usually die right after it cranks, and when I go to start it right away again, it will still just turn over and over and over before it cranks. Just not as much as the first time. Is this my problem as well? My fuel pump losing prime?


Keylan

 

[GVR4592]

Red GSX, what exactly is happening, I am asking because when I get in my car and try to start it, it will turn over and over and over before it cranks and sometimes I have to give it gas just to get it to start. I have no idea what is happening. I have a walbro 255lph and i have AEM EMS. Also my car is tuned to crap right now, so it will usually die right after it cranks, and when I go to start it right away again, it will still just turn over and over and over before it cranks. Just not as much as the first time. Is this my problem as well? My fuel pump losing prime?


Keylan

Sounds like a tuning issue. I would get it professionally tuned if you want good results.

 

[twicks69]

Sounds like a tuning issue. I would get it professionally tuned if you want good results.

Agreed. It could be anywhere from a crank injector time table, a warmup enrichment table, crank advance, start extra vs. temp, start extra vs. decay, etc. or it could be as simple as a change in ignition timing or raw fuel maps, or that your timing is not properly synched.


More than likely it is your tune not correctly setup, and not your fuel pump. If you hear your fuel pump physically turn on, it is priming -- do you have a fuel pressure gauge on your fuel pressure regulator or in your car to see? If you do, and you have pressure while cranking, your fuel pump is not the issue (regarding priming).

I did a search for performance shops or AEM certified tuners, but I couldn't find any in your area (Warrior, AL 35180). I hope that you know someone in your area, or that you are willing to drive out of state to get tuned.

Good luck!

 

[red_gsx]

twics69- Thanks for the reply I'll try and get my hands on a multimeter tomorrow and check voltage. I'm not exactly too experienced in the electrical aspect so what kind of voltage should I looks for? My problem is in the cold as well since the car starts well in warm weather. As far as checking the relay, can you go a little more in depth on that? Would I be checking resistance between the prongs or what's up? Sorry if these seem like very basic questions but like I said I'm just starting the electrical part.
Sbr Joe- My car hasn't always been a pain to start so that's why I'm guessing there is a problem somewhere with the wiring. If every 2g took multiple attempts at starting then I would learn to cope with it. I looked around some more and noticed a couple posts confirming what you said (not that I doubted you) about it not priming. Like I said though this hasn't always been a problem.
Topnotchgsx- In cold weather I crank the engine for 5 seconds before it starts making a nasty grinding noise, wait, crank again, wait, crank again and it starts. I don't need to give it gas to start but it helps.
Thanks to all for your input I'll keep updating as new improvements/issues develop.

 

[SBR Joe]

That was my fault. I mis understood you, i thought you were talking about when you turned the key on it didnt prime....i didnt know you mean when you tried to start it. My fault for not reading carefully enough.

Joe
Slowboy Racing

 

[red_gsx]

Actually you didn't misread anything, I originally thought it should prime in the acc position. I don't mean to go off topic here but I was messing around with my fpr today (my pressure is stuck at 41) and is fuel pressure supposed to drop instantly to 0 when the engine is turned off? I'm under the impression that it shouldn't and the system should retain it for a while.

 

[oldman]

Red, does your fuel pressure gauge drop to 0 immediately after you shut off the engine?

 

[DSM90AWD]

Make sure the pump's o-ring seal to the hood isn't fubard. If is, will prevent line pressure from building up quickly causing delayed start (and obviousls other fuel delivery problems)

 

[oldman]

Make sure the pump's o-ring seal to the hood isn't fubard. If is, will prevent line pressure from building up quickly causing delayed start (and obviousls other fuel delivery problems)

Damn it Beavis I was going to get to that.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Damn it Beavis I was going to get to that.

You're as slow as your car

 

[oldman]

You're as slow as your car

 

[topnotchgsx]

Agreed. It could be anywhere from a crank injector time table, a warmup enrichment table, crank advance, start extra vs. temp, start extra vs. decay, etc. or it could be as simple as a change in ignition timing or raw fuel maps, or that your timing is not properly synched.


More than likely it is your tune not correctly setup, and not your fuel pump. If you hear your fuel pump physically turn on, it is priming -- do you have a fuel pressure gauge on your fuel pressure regulator or in your car to see? If you do, and you have pressure while cranking, your fuel pump is not the issue (regarding priming).

I did a search for performance shops or AEM certified tuners, but I couldn't find any in your area (Warrior, AL 35180). I hope that you know someone in your area, or that you are willing to drive out of state to get tuned.

Good luck!

Ok good, i have been thinking that it was in the tuning the whole time, but never really asked someone knowledgable enough. When I got it tuned, i had the oem clutch that was abosolutely shot, so there was no way to get some street tuning done, so it only got it tuned at idle. Actually I go to a guy in Tuscaloosa name Tracy Hyche that owns a shop down here and has built some fast cars. His current project is a 2.0 with shearer top mount, side exit exhaust and GT42R, and he says that AEM is his thing. I will talk to him and see what he thinks, thanks a lot.

 

[Caithness]

Rather than messing with that annoying stock o-ring/hat setup, cut off the "hat" part of the metal fuel line/pickup and run straight high-pressure fuel hose with high quality clamps. Not your run-of-the-mill worm gear hose clamps, but clamps that are sort of like mini-T-bolt clamps, with a screw instead of a bolt. I wish I knew the exact name for them; I know they come on Nissan 240sx fuel lines because I got some from my friend off of such a car.

I've been running my fuel line like that for over a year and the slow prime issue has not come back. It also quieted down the pump as it eliminated the leak past the seal that must've made the pump work harder.

 

[red_gsx]

I checked out the pump's o-ring and everything seemed fine. Any suggestions of what's next? Thank you.