FP3 Cams and Manley Springs

[Kmiller86]

Hi right now I have a set of Web cams with the streetgrind. I am in the process of building a 2.3 and wanted to get the FP3 cams. I have Manley valvesprings and retainers. FP says that dual valve springs are recommended with these cams but not required. My question is will the Manley springs be fine reving to 8k??

Thanks.
Kyle

 

[92awddsm]

If you expect the 2.3 to live for a while, you shouldnt be revving it to 8k rpm. Keep the Manley springs, fp3's, and rev it to 7200 rpm. Revving it higher is just not good for a 2.3.

 

[Kmiller86]

This isnt a daily driver I put about 2.5k a year on it and I would only be reving it to 8k at the track. So would the springs still be ok to rev to 8k?

 

[andymoraitis]

If you expect the 2.3 to live for a while, you shouldnt be revving it to 8k rpm. Keep the Manley springs, fp3's, and rev it to 7200 rpm. Revving it higher is just not good for a 2.3.

I'd have to agree. I have a 2.3 and keep max revs at about 6500 with the rev limiter set to 7200. Even with a larger turbo that wouldn't peter out at 5500 RPM, I'd still shift it more like a V8 than I would a 4 cylinder.

 

[Kmiller86]

What do you mean shift it more like a v8. My friend has a 93 stang with a 351 in it and we rev it to 8.5k all day long and have done it for years now with no problems. Back to my original question if i were to rev it to 8k would the springs work.

 

[92awddsm]

I wouldnt suggest it. FP reccomends using the dual valve springs with normal usage on a 2.3 in mind. Normal usage being revved no higher than 7500 rpm. 8k is very aggresive and the single springs might have a problem keeping up with the cam. The best thing to do is call FP and see what they think.

 

[andymoraitis]

What do you mean shift it more like a v8. My friend has a 93 stang with a 351 in it and we rev it to 8.5k all day long and have done it for years now with no problems.

Congratulations on completely missing the point. Just call FP and find out for yourself.

 

[Kmiller86]

Ok thanks. Another question. I dont have the money right now to buy new springs if they are needed. Could I stick with the 272s for a while or will that hurt me in the performance area.

 

[andymoraitis]

I run non-stroker cams on my 2.3 (Comp 200's) and I don't feel any adverse effects from having them. Granted, FP3's would have likely been better, but I can't imagine a huge difference from a 272 variant. I think you'll be fine with them and since you already have Manley's in there, use what you have and it should be good to go. The difference between something that works very well and something that's optimal may not always be worth the extra investment. I'd say if you had maximized everything else and were looking for that last bit of performance advantage it would be worth it, but for now, you'll be able to run very well with what you have. With the increase in volumetric efficiency that a stroker provides, I'd say that the turbo is the most critical part of making the equation work.

 

[Kmiller86]

Ok thanks for the help. I will hold off on the cams till this winter when I do some headwork.
Thanks
Kyle

 

[andymoraitis]

Sounds like a plan. I reviewed your mod list and think you have a strong setup. Head and intake work will be a definite plus in moving more air. As long as the turbo can keep up (that's my problem with a teeny turbo on a big motor) I'd say you're golden.

 

[Kmiller86]

Thanks i hope the scm61 can keep up if not ill move up to a a full t4

 

[TurboDSMer]

You can rev the manley springs to 8k. MY friend has those springs on his car and he revs to 9k with no problems.

 

[92awddsm]

You can rev the manley springs to 8k. MY friend has those springs on his car and he revs to 9k with no problems.

I rev mine to 8500 with fp2's but they wont survive with the 3's. What cams does your friend have?

 

[SlowboyCSE]

This is a side note and i'm only tossing this out as help. FP states right on their site that the FP3x's are reccommended for use with dual springs.

Last year i ran Comp 101400's all season on a set of Manley single springs and Manley Retainers. It is a 2.0 liter motor that was revved consistently to 8500 rpms.

http://linux.forcedperformance.net/...roduct_Code=FPCamExh&Category_Code=DSM-Engine

If you want to do it right, follow what they have posted or give them a ring and see what they think.

 

[Kmiller86]

With the web cams i reved to 8700 with the manley springs for the past year. This wasnt once in a while either it was a several times a week with no problems. just my .02

 

[InvaderGSX]

I have the same dilema. I've been emailing and calling FP and cannot get a straight answer. They keep saying I have to talk to a specific person and I keep getting his voice mail and leaving a message and never get a return call. I myself am going to a stroker motor and it's going in soon. I currently have the FP2's with Manley springs and retainers because that was on the car when I was with a 2.0. I want to either go to the FP3 or FP3x, but want some advice from them on which way to go and if I can buy their dual spring kit without the titanium retainers since I already have some. About a month ago I got an email response saying without the dual valve springs on a stroker I should do the FP1x, but if that was the case I would just keep my FP2's. I don't know. I've been reading everything on here and everyone has different opinions and most people are arguing about the Fp3's and FP3x's on a regular 2.0 which doesn't help me any.

 

[CanadianTSi]

I've been running my FP2x's all year on Manley srpings and retainers...bang it off the stock rev limiter pretty much every day with no problems.

 

[Tom N]

I would think that the Manley springs and retainers would be good for revs past 9k on a non X-grind cam.
I rev 272`s to 9k with stock springs and retainers with out a problem.

 

[TurboDSMer]

I rev mine to 8500 with fp2's but they wont survive with the 3's. What cams does your friend have?

My friend has 272's last time i checked

 

[InvaderGSX]

I finally got through to someone at FP. There is no way the FP3 cams will work with the Manley Springs and retainers. They told me it needs 280+ PSI of pressure over the nose. I called Manley and they said their springs are only rated at 220 PSI. I even called SI to see what their dual valve springs will handle and they said 240 PSI. That's not very good for a dual valve spring. And worst of all FP won't sell their dual springs without the titanium retainers. That's crap if you ask me. So I have to buy the whole set. But since I have to buy them anyways I am going to the FP3X's. They say they are the same as the FP3's but with better top end. So according to my research only their dual valve springs will work and the Ferrea dual valve springs will work too, but we all know how much those crazy things are. Hope that helps

 

[Caithness]

The dual springs would not work without matching retainers. They're not trying to rip you off.

 

[InvaderGSX]

Your wrong buddy. Titanium retainers are titanium retainers. As long as they are made for the 4G63 motor they are all the same exact size and weight. Doesn't matter if they are Crower, Manley, Ferrea, etc. All the same with a different brand name. I've done my homework on that also. Just like a stock retainer is the same exact size. Just titanium is a lighter material. I'm not saying they are ripping me off, but not willing to sell the dual valve springs without the retainers is retarded.

 

[daren_p]

This isn't specific to this post but since info has been posted on several cams... When I talked to FP about their 1x cams that I bought, they recommend upgraded single springs and to shim them .030" just for a little extra pressure.

InvaderGSX are you sure about the retainers being the same for both single and dual springs? I would think if they were bothy designed to be stock replacements they would be the same size, etc. but don't the dual spring retainers need two steps machined into the bottom to accomidate both springs while the single only has one step?

Edit: Just looked at the catalogue that came with my crower springs, don't know if its because its possibly for a different application but the duals have 2 steps while my singles only have one step.

 

[InvaderGSX]

It's weird because if you search on here under FP3X you'll see a whole bunch of posts and everyone says something different that FP tells them. I guess it depends who you talk to, but they should have a meeting and get the info right. On one thread someone says they called FP and was told that the Fp2x cam will work fine with the single Manley Springs and ti retainers. On another it says it cannot. On another it says they can use the SI dual valve springs. I don't know. When I talked to the guy he said it needed 280 psi of pressure over the nose. So I called Manley directly and was told it can only do 220 psi and then I called SI directly and they said 240 psi. So hey I have to buy the dang FP setup anyways just to run the cam.
To answer your question daren p the shimming they are talking about is shimming the spring. Not the retainer. That's what people did back in the day when their was no aftermarket springs for our cars to get the stock springs firmer. For the dual valve springs they use seats. Retainer is not modified. If they were they would definitely tell you that they were milled down or something. I've owned the SI dual valve springs before on a couple of setups ago and Manley titanium retainers are used with that setup. You set the height of the spring pressure yourself. That is why they tell you on the FP3's to do it a different height compared to the FP3x.