Forced Performance Cams

[Coup D E'Tat]

robert young asked me to post this for him.

Thanks for the heads up. I wonder who bought those?

 

[poorboyj]

Since this thread is in the "Advanced Tech" area, do you mind telling us a little about the FP3&4 cams? Not so much spec's and numbers, but more like who these cams are intended for, what cams they are comparable to, engine/turbo setup requirements, etc.

Thanks,
Jay
P.S. If you need another test vehicle, PM me.

 

[Eclipse Rogue]

On the DSMLink forums I have followed a similar thread... The guys in that forum was talkin about putting cam gears on to tune them... I have been told by a couple respected dsm guys here in the Northwest that you really only need cam gears to "tune" cams that haven't been ground properly. And that the HKS's cam are perfect everytime and they don't need cam gears. I have the HKS 272's in my car and wouldn't change them for anything. Part of the fun is having the lope in your idle... I know everybody wants a "sleeper" to whoop up on the hondas or v8's, but the looks I get when I am next to a v8 and I have more lope than they do is priceless. You know, having something that stands out is part of the game too... Just my 2 cents.

 

[anconover]

HKS cams are NOT perfect. They do come much closer than some, and you can get away with no gears, but without adjusting them accordingly, you wont make the most possible power from them. I dont care for a lumpy idle, my 272's sound totally stock.

 

[EVIL X]

Since this thread is in the "Advanced Tech" area, do you mind telling us a little about the FP3&4 cams? Not so much spec's and numbers, but more like who these cams are intended for, what cams they are comparable to, engine/turbo setup requirements, etc.

Thanks,
Jay
P.S. If you need another test vehicle, PM me.

I am also interested in knowing more about the fp3's and 4's. I called and they said they didnt have a definate "date" they would be out, but i dont want to fork over 450 for a set of 2's , if i know the other 2 models will soon be available.

 

[Robert Young]

The 2.0 engine cams are finished. FPCam3 and 4 are intended for 2.3 and 2.4 engines. They take advantage of the fact that RPM is limited to 8500 or less on these engines and take advantage of the higer piston speed to move more air. The lobes are different to get the most out of the 100mm stroke.

I don't know how they would work on a 2.0, but that isn't part of the design criteria. The advertised specs don't look drastically different than the FPCam2, all the difference occurs at the nose of the lobe. Advertised numbers and even the .050 numbers won't show the diference in the profile in this area.



All you boost are belong to us!
Robert

 

[Robert Young]

My main concern on these cams is valve float, and we can't market them until we are convinced we can make correct spring recommendations for the lobes. As it stands the Ferrara Double springs won't last and shimming singles tight enough hasn't been tested long enough to know the life expectency yet.

I would hat to start selling them only to discover that everybody was having major float problems 5k miles into the install, these lobes have some serious accel rates.

 

[jott5555]

i dont want to start a is my this good enough series of thread.. but what were the outcome with cower single springs and titanium retiners? i was very interested in the fp2's until i read that last statement.. i soppse you could just swap springs ever couple 1000 miles.. hehe

 

[anconover]

He is referring to the FP3 and FP4 cams, not FP2. Although i personally would highly recommend upgraded springs with even the 1's and 2's, its not necessary i suppose. But if your taking the car to redline often, upgrade and save yourself in the end.

But he wasnt referring to a problem with FP2's.

 

[jott5555]

my bad then.. i do have a cower setup in my dsm so i think im covered.. i need fp2's now

 

[98spydert]

The 2.0 engine cams are finished. FPCam3 and 4 are intended for 2.3 and 2.4 engines. They take advantage of the fact that RPM is limited to 8500 or less on these engines and take advantage of the higer piston speed to move more air. The lobes are different to get the most out of the 100mm stroke.

I don't know how they would work on a 2.0, but that isn't part of the design criteria. The advertised specs don't look drastically different than the FPCam2, all the difference occurs at the nose of the lobe. Advertised numbers and even the .050 numbers won't show the diference in the profile in this area.

oh, one more bone to throw before Christmas.


All you boost are belong to us!
Robert

And those would be mine

 

[Robert Young]

I want to clarify my earlier remarks about spring requirements. Funny I am giving much more product info here than I am on my own website - one of the benifits to you loyal DSMTuners memebers!

The FPCam1 and FPCam2 we thoroughly tested to 8500rpm on 2.0 engines (yes plural) with stock springs with zero float or spring sack out issues. The FPCam2 were thoroughly tested to 9500rpm on 2.0 engines (again plural) with Crower singles and another brand of singles with zero float or sack out issues.

The FPCam3 and 4 are not in the public domain yet, and the required spring tensions, recommended installed height etc are yet to be determined. When I spoke about my spring concerns earlier I was speaking specifically about FPCam 3 and 4 and NOT about the FPCam2 and FPCam1. When we have blown some stuff up and figured out where the limit is and what springs work and what springs don't work we will begin selling the cams. Obviously it would be highly irresponsible of my to offer a product that was not fully developed yet. I know some of you are looking for the baddest shitte you can get your hands on and that will prolly be these 3 and 4 cams, but I can't sell them and sleep at night till I can be sure you will not have problems or at least know what you must do to avoid problems.

Hope that clarifies the issue at least a little bit.


May the Boost be with you and yours!

Robert Young
Forced Performance Inc

 

[tsibribri]

hey everyone id like some input on if the fp2 cams would work ok on my car with the mods i got (there on profile) the engine is a jdm spec engine no internals or anything
thanks in advance for all the replys

 

[anconover]

if you still dont have a fmic, youll benefit more from that. Then worry about the cams.

 

[MNGSX]

Comp has historically worked with the best engine builders in their discipline of motorsports.

They have ground custom profiles at the request of engine builders which are only available thru that builder.

I always thought that comp was going to be the cam company that would finally do something different in regards to the 4G63.

FP did the majority of the R&D but the LSA is different on the std comps....

I'm interested in what the cam card will look like for the FP3 and FP4.

I'm sure Ti retainers will be manditory.

If given a choice I'd rather take weight off of the valvetrain than increase pressure. In the real world there are only so many choices to reduce valvetrain weight.

I'd consider EVO valves or aftermarket valves with atleast the hollow stem intake valves like on a evo.... Maybe titanium intake valves. It's just tough to control float with valvespring pressure alone.. that and anymore valvespring pressure than you need for a saftey margin is just wasted hp...

Either way I always do a little more. Lets say a given cam grind calls for double springs.... I'll run double springs and ti retainers etc...

 

[tsibribri]

if you still dont have a fmic, youll benefit more from that. Then worry about the cams.

i do got the indy race "race" fmic its in my mods but i see i left it in my wish list sorry i fixed it

 

[16g-95gsx]

I picked up a set of FPcam2's from ebay last thursday night, they should be here any day now. I currently run 42lb/min on pump gas, and I am going to be sure to do extensive before and after logs on DSMlink of my results. Id imagine a setup such as mine will benefit greatly from a set of cams such as these. For reference the stock airflow really begins to divebomb at 6500rpms, it is extremely evident in every log I as well as others perform. There was one other person on the dsmlink forums who logged a set of FPcam2's and on his 50trim at 18psi he went from 34-35lb/min up to 39-40lb/min which for those of you who dont know 5lb/min is quite a hefty gain. From every review I have seen these cams supposedly idle extremely similar to stock, and I personally have seen the DSMlink logs of that guy who had a set, and seeing the difference in how his airflow curves would plateau in comparison to mine pretty much sold me. The other alternative was HKS 264/272's, but really when these cams are priced almost 100 dollars cheaper than I could find the HKS cams for, and supposedly have better gains as well as a better idle I dont see how you can go wrong. They dont require springs and retainers, and FP is an extremely trustworthy vendor, I just dont see how anyone can go wrong.

 

[ikickuintheball]

5lb/min gain with a 50-trim at 18psi.. I'm sold! . I'm definitely picking up a set of these!

 

[Eclipse Rogue]

Comp has historically worked with the best engine builders in their discipline of motorsports.

They have ground custom profiles at the request of engine builders which are only available thru that builder.

Ummmm, so has HKS.

 

[MNGSX]

Is that like when HK$ ground off the part # from a factory Mazda Cosmo 20B denso pump modded it a bit to almost match supra denso and sold it a custom in tank upgrade... Then priced it $400 over what a supra pump would cost?

Yes they were the first company to do DSM cams justice but their price gouging and funkyness in other areas of their line make me an uneasy customer...

Comp and a front runner US DSM shop... (not signal in japan & HKS) are teaming up... If HKS is so good maybe they should run their DSM shop car (if they even have one) VS one of FP's.

 

[skier_du]

My question for either FP or others with their cams. How are the spool characteristics and power bands of both the fp1 and fp2 cams? Supposedly the 264 spools the same as stock, and the 272 spools slightly slower than stock. I'm looking for the best spool possible with as little compromise in power possible, and I don't want to rev to 8k+ to get power, nothing more than 7-7.5k max.

 

[Dallas J]

5lb/min gain with a 50-trim at 18psi.. I'm sold! . I'm definitely picking up a set of these!

Heh, That was me. I was really suprise to see that gain 17ish psi.

Like I keep saying though, the power is much smoother now. Also looking at logs the stock cams really plateau at 6500rpms as seen by Airflow falling off. The FP2s keep pulling to about 7200-7500 before falling off, which is more a function of my stock intake mani.

Another spec that shows these cams to be very close to a perfect grind, at least for me, is the vacuume at idle. All the cars Ive seen with a lumpy idle had very low vacuume, but I only dropped about 25mm or 1in.

-Dallas J

 

[98spydert]

Are the intake cams already drilled/taped for the 97-99 CAS or do I still need to have that done??

 

[Dallas J]

Yes, mine came tapped at no extra charge. I have a 95 so I didnt need it tapped, and never asked.

-Dallas J

 

[98spydert]

Good to know, thanks! That's another $50 cheaper than the HK$ cams... good stuff.