Forced Performance Cams

[98spydert]

My question for either FP or others with their cams. How are the spool characteristics and power bands of both the fp1 and fp2 cams? Supposedly the 264 spools the same as stock, and the 272 spools slightly slower than stock. I'm looking for the best spool possible with as little compromise in power possible, and I don't want to rev to 8k+ to get power, nothing more than 7-7.5k max.

Sounds like the fp1s/264s would be a better choice for you for two reasons; the fp2s/272s move the power band up in the rpm range to make more power to and beyond redline. And the fp1s/264s supposably have better low-mid power and better idle.

 

[anconover]

Youd def want the FP1's. The FP2's seem to have less low end than the HKS 272's, and ive heard people complain about the low end loss on 272's. Personally, i couldnt see any loss but.

 

[Dallas J]

The FP2s are suppose to have less low end loss than the 272's. The off the shelf "big" Comp cams though Ive heard loose alot of low end.

I only noted loss under say 1700 RPMs, and I never drive at that low of an RPM exept when taking off.

-Dallas J

 

[anconover]

i dunno, the comp cams, and fp2's have next to no real difference from the numbers ive come up with, although FP hasnt put too much info out on them as far as specs. forced performance did play a huge role in creating the comp cams, so i couldnt see how theyd find much of a difference to creat theyre own.

 

[98spydert]

i dunno, the comp cams, and fp2's have next to no real difference from the numbers ive come up with, although FP hasnt put too much info out on them as far as specs. forced performance did play a huge role in creating the comp cams, so i couldnt see how theyd find much of a difference to creat theyre own.

Can you post these numbers showing no real difference?

 

[anconover]

just compare the spec sheet posted on one of the previous pages vs comps specs. I cant remember off hand what the difference was, i think it was the centerline degree. But FP doesnt seem to want to let too much info out about the specs so can only really tell so much from the spec sheet.

 

[MNGSX]

That is the only difference..

Installed straight up they are degree'd in differently than the other...

How much to want to bet the FPS beat the closest spec standard comp by a bit and the closest HKS by more and bolt on and install straight up like HKS fans talk about all the time..


FP to get the Fp3-4 valvetrain right should just require the lighter EVO spec valvetrain hardware.. Comp has the tooling to make a lighter weight high perf spring for the 4g63... Better than the evo spring for tension/vs mass and longevity..

Lighter parts = better than super stiff springs.

Use the EVO VIII springs and retainers or better yet.


Comp Beehive spring technology. In 4g63 fitment... would make sense

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Then make some ti retainers which match the smaller diameter top of the spring.. = lighter than competitions retainer/spring combo by far.

Some lighter rockers might help farther...

All that will bolt on with a cam install... (spring swap with air pressure on valves to keep them in place..)

Not manditory but for my ultimate motor would be EVOVIII int/exhaust valves..... Lightest 4G63 valvtrain possible without ti valves which don't hold a grind too long anyway...

 

[SpdKlzU]

Just got my set in the mail today (from one of the EBay auctions). I have to say Robert shipped these things really quickly after the auction! I'll be installing them this weekend. I won't have any before and after logs cus they are one of the latest additions to my 4 month long project (SCM50, AGP FMIC, ported head, 1g intake manifold, WBO2, Setrab oil cooler, and the list goes on and on *sigh*).

Should have some DSMLink logs though showing airflow. Hopefully the power doesn't taper off... anywhere

 

[NDgsx]

Comp Beehive spring technology. In 4g63 fitment... would make sense

I'm still wondering why this hasn't been brought into the import market. They're all the rage in the OHV market.

 

[JUANPSI]

Has anyone seen these springs? Maybe they will work with the fp3 and fp4?

http://www.ffwdconnection.com/cylinderheads.htm

 

[MNGSX]

Has anyone seen these springs? Maybe they will work with the fp3 and fp4?

http://www.ffwdconnection.com/cylinderheads.htm

Those look alright..

You can get Ti retainers and good springs from crower. It depends on the spring rate.... Two springs can have the same seat pressure but increase at different rates...

It's like suspension springs.. Adjust them to the same ride height and they both hold the same corner weight at the ride height.. The cam provides the bump travel and we are trying to keep the wheel (cam roller) on the cam.. Look at valvetrain component weight like unsprung suspension weight.. A lighter valvetrain requires less spring pressure to keep the roller on the cam.. Less spring pressure = less power going into turning the camshafts...

Valvetrain harmonics are a bit complex..

 

[v8s_are_slow]

maybe you guys oughta run this kinda stuff by the guys at forced performance. i mean they're not gonna sell the cams till they have the right kinda springs anyway. so talk about springs between us on the board just doesn't seem like it's gonna be useful info. let those guys figure out the correct springs to use so they can sell em. and let us worry about the performance we get outta the cams just my thoughts on it.

 

[MNGSX]

Actually I am guessing that the Fp3 and Fp4 cams will be re-indexed Comp 101300 and 101400 grinds...

The information on them is Here

What we really need is a lighter rocker with roller tip. That would solve alot... A roller tip would allow cams even more aggressive than the 3-4...

 

[Suparata]

Those look alright..

You can get Ti retainers and good springs from crower. It depends on the spring rate.... Two springs can have the same seat pressure but increase at different rates...

It's like suspension springs.. Adjust them to the same ride height and they both hold the same corner weight at the ride height.. The cam provides the bump travel and we are trying to keep the wheel (cam roller) on the cam.. Look at valvetrain component weight like unsprung suspension weight.. A lighter valvetrain requires less spring pressure to keep the roller on the cam.. Less spring pressure = less power going into turning the camshafts...

Valvetrain harmonics are a bit complex..

What if you can have both lighter and stiffer springs than stock?
15% stiffer (a true 15% unlike other's claim) at installed height and also with a higher spring rate that yields 33% higher pressure at open. All this “delivered” by a considerable lighter setup than stock.
Believe me it can be done safely.

 

[MNGSX]

Yes it can be done...

There are so many springs in the crower catalog that would be awsome based on installed height and rate.. They just don't fit.. Too small ID on doubles. To big OD on singles and doubles.. etc... The crower premium springs have some pretty stiff rates... Like the same as their double std springs.. But they are all OHV v8 size springs...

 

[Suparata]

The world does not start and ends with Crower. There are a whole lot of other manufacturers that make very high quality springs. Manufacturers not “re-sellers” or “re-packagers”.

 

[MNGSX]

The world does not start and ends with Crower. There are a whole lot of other manufacturers that make very high quality springs. Manufacturers not “re-sellers” or “re-packagers”.

Post or PM a Linkypoo

 

[v8s_are_slow]

okay well back to the subject of the cams themselves.

i FINALLY got mine installed (FPcam2's) and today was the 1st time driving around with them in. 1st off i'll say i noticed a loss in bottom end IMMEDIATELY. i mean even just trying to let off the clutch and starting out in 1st gear cause i'd stall it if i didn't give it more gas. i have a sbr GT-13 turbo by the way. but right at about 3500-4000 rpm....wham!!! it pulled hard all the way to 8k rpm. got me there in no time. whereas even with the big turbo i have, the stock cams just made it feel like the car was falling on it's face at around 5 to 6k rpm.

i do notice the lopey idle but i can deal with it over having a fast car. i'm having a few problems but may not be associated to the cams. i'm stalling out everytime i press in on the clutch to come to a stop (probably need to adjust the biss screw. will be trying that tomorrow). and if i'm going really slow in 1st gear the car starts jerking. not sure if that's because of the cam lope or something else also, my O2 sensor is on it's way out so replacing that tomorrow so i can get back to tuning.

anyway, other than that, these things are great, especially on the highway. i don't have an aftermarket intake manifold yet but that's my next mod. and sure that'll hurt my lowend a lot too. not sure how much horsepower these things have added but it was DEFINATELY felt as soon as i put them in. unlike when you put on an intake and barely notice a difference. not sure what my true fuel trims are at right now, but seeing that i'm not getting much knock and timing isn't being pulled they can't be too bad. so without having it very well tuned yet, they're still doing a good job. running only 15 psi right now as well. as soon as it's tuned a bit, i'll be bumping it up to around 20-22 psi. can only imagine. anyway, just wanted to post an update. loving them so far and hoping to run at the 1/8th mile track weekend after next to see what kinda numbers i can lay down. laters!

scott

 

[TurboDSM90]

okay well back to the subject of the cams themselves.

i FINALLY got mine installed (FPcam2's) and today was the 1st time driving around with them in. 1st off i'll say i noticed a loss in bottom end IMMEDIATELY. i mean even just trying to let off the clutch and starting out in 1st gear cause i'd stall it if i didn't give it more gas. i have a sbr GT-13 turbo by the way. but right at about 3500-4000 rpm....wham!!! it pulled hard all the way to 8k rpm. got me there in no time. whereas even with the big turbo i have, the stock cams just made it feel like the car was falling on it's face at around 5 to 6k rpm.

i do notice the lopey idle but i can deal with it over having a fast car. i'm having a few problems but may not be associated to the cams. i'm stalling out everytime i press in on the clutch to come to a stop (probably need to adjust the biss screw. will be trying that tomorrow). and if i'm going really slow in 1st gear the car starts jerking. not sure if that's because of the cam lope or something else also, my O2 sensor is on it's way out so replacing that tomorrow so i can get back to tuning.

anyway, other than that, these things are great, especially on the highway. i don't have an aftermarket intake manifold yet but that's my next mod. and sure that'll hurt my lowend a lot too. not sure how much horsepower these things have added but it was DEFINATELY felt as soon as i put them in. unlike when you put on an intake and barely notice a difference. not sure what my true fuel trims are at right now, but seeing that i'm not getting much knock and timing isn't being pulled they can't be too bad. so without having it very well tuned yet, they're still doing a good job. running only 15 psi right now as well. as soon as it's tuned a bit, i'll be bumping it up to around 20-22 psi. can only imagine. anyway, just wanted to post an update. loving them so far and hoping to run at the 1/8th mile track weekend after next to see what kinda numbers i can lay down. laters!

scott

Thank you.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i'll post another update as soon as i get some of these problems ironed out and when it's tuned a good bit more. and i wish i could have some track times so i could post a before and after.....but i don't.

another thing i forgot to mention is that i have a stage 3 dsmchip and moved the rev limiter from 7500 rpm to 8k. before i had the cams put in i was shifting at 7k rpm even though i had the chip cause it didn't feel like it would've done me any good to shift past that even with my turbo and other mods. power was just falling off to fast. as soon as the cams went it, well that all changed and now the car feels pretty happy to be pulling all the way to 8k. anyway, i'll post another update when i get the chance. hope this helps people. laters!

scott

p.s. i also have stock cam gears.

 

[Skunked tsi]

My 272s do that herky jerky shit in first gear as well at low rpms like that aswell. Its like when the cam opens/closes the valves you get a lil jerk. Also mine died as well when I first got the cams installed just adjust the biss to right around 1k and you wont have any issues.
Tyler

 

[red91gst]

i dunno, the comp cams, and fp2's have next to no real difference from the numbers ive come up with, although FP hasnt put too much info out on them as far as specs. forced performance did play a huge role in creating the comp cams, so i couldnt see how theyd find much of a difference to creat theyre own.

You are correct sir, but they dont want you to know that

Nate
SBR

 

[98spydert]

Can some slight adjusments be made via adj cam gears to regain a little bit if that off boost performance? Would that adjusment greatly effect top end?

 

[TSIfreek]

I dont think adj cam gears will help with the comp cams. They perfect right out of the box. If you want more off boost response go with the FP1 grinds. I have the comp 100s with the stock gears and to the trained ear you know its not stock but it idles just like stock.

 

[GPTourer]

Is it possible/recommended to try mismatched combos HKS style?
FP1/FP2 or vice versa and if so what have been the results? Or do they only sell
them in pairs?