"Flywheel bolts for a Fidanza Flywheel?" Continued

[acemas99]

This is a question from the older forum "Flywheel bolts for a Fidanza Flywheel?"

I can't post in that forum... I have been on this site daily for over the past few years, but I usually find my answers through searching and rarely post...anyway.

I recently had some trans trouble, and while I have the tranny out I plan to buy and install the Fidanza aluminum flywheel from extremepsi: EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Fidanza Lightweight Aluminum Flywheel : Mitsubishi Eclipse 90-99 Turbo


In the thread shown above, there was discussion of Fidanza flywheels having different thicknesses; some with the same thickness as stock, and others being 4mm thicker. I was wondering if anyone has recently purchased the Fidanza fly from extremepsi (specifically the 7-bolt FWD), and what the thickness was relative to stock. I am trying to figure out if I need the longer flywheel bolts or not. If it is the same thickness as the stock flywheel, I am not going to get the longer bolts, but if it is thicker I will get the longer bolts.

 

[freeman 188]

just make sure you use thread lock on those bolts ,my buddy put a fidenza flywheel in his car about a month ago ,within 2 days all the bolts lossened off wrecking his aluminum flywheel ,6 bolt

 

[n00btalon]

just got a fidanza clutch and flywheel from extremepsi and they eveyrthing worked and fit great... no problems so far, has probaby 600-1000miles so far... btw extremepsi is top notch, they answer questions quickly so u could always drop them an email too! good luck

 

[snowborder714]

I installed a 7 bolt FWD Fidanza flywheel not too long ago. I used the A/T spacer plate (MD760086) and these flywheel bolts (MD008839). I tapped the bolt holes to make sure they were clean, used a dab of red Loctite, and torqued them down to spec (100 ft.lbs.).

 

[acemas99]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Freeman - I sent extremepsi an email about it. For some reason I never think of parts vendors as knowledgable people, I just think of them as a website. I'll keep you posted on what they say.

I still have a few questions

1. Brian - I assume those part numbers are valid at Mitsu stealerships? What can I expect to pay for the bolts and spacer plate?


2. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but an end tap is just the one with a square (flat) end, so it can tap to the end of a blind hole, correct?

3. I am alright with the tapping process, but was wondering if the flywheel bolt holes were blind or through holes. If they are through holes, isn't anyone worried about getting the tapped metal shavings in the crank case?!?

 

[snowborder714]

Yes, they are valid part numbers. $6.50ish for the A/T plate and $2.50ish per flywheel bolt.

You're correct on the bottoming tap. Also, it has threads all the way to the end of the tap vs. tapering/disappearing on other taps. There's a good picture in this link comparing 3 different types of taps. I don't remember if I used a bottom or plug tap, but I didn't cut any new threads either way, as I didn't see the need to with the bolt lengths I got.
Tap and die - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They're not through holes. Otherwise, why would length matter and why would some people use a bottom tap to add some more threads? Just blow out each hole with air after you tap it.

 

[toofast82]

I switched my car from auto to manual not too long ago. I ordered the bolts from SBR, used loctite and a spacer from my auto flexplate, to prevent from the head of bolt damaging flywheel. So far, so good, 2k miles.
In past dsms, I have installed the fidanza with whatever bolts were already in there with loctite, with no issues either.

 

[acemas99]

Yes, they are valid part numbers. $6.50ish for the A/T plate and $2.50ish per flywheel bolt.

Thanks, I'll give them a call and check out the lead time.

I don't remember if I used a bottom or plug tap, but I didn't cut any new threads either way, as I didn't see the need to with the bolt lengths I got.

Before I order the bolts and the plate, I just like to make sure I'm clear.

1. Can you confirm that the Fidanza 7-bolt FWD flywheel is in fact 4mm thicker than the stock flywheel at the bolt hole locations?

2. If the flywheel is thicker, are the bolts you gave me the part number for longer to accomadate the thicker flywheel? If so, how much thicker?

They're not through holes. Otherwise, why would length matter and why would some people use a bottom tap to add some more threads? Just blow out each hole with air after you tap it.

The length and extra threads are necessary so that the active threaded length of the bolt (amount of threads that are actually in contact with bolt hole threads) could remain the same, or possibly even be extended for an added factor of safety on our modified engines.

Thanks for the help!

 

[snowborder714]

It should only take 3 days to get in parts they don't stock.

I can't confirm the difference of flywheel thickness. I went with these bolts as per recommendations on the link forum (and possibly on here as well).

1g 6 bolt M/T - MD040557 – 22.5MM
1g/2g 7 bolt M/T - MD302074 – 21.2MM

MD008839 - 26mm

The length and extra threads are necessary so that the active threaded length of the bolt (amount of threads that are actually in contact with bolt hole threads) could remain the same, or possibly even be extended for an added factor of safety on our modified engines.

My bad, I worded that wrong. What I was getting at is if they're through holes, why would you need to worry about bolt length, as you could run as long of a bolt as you wanted, as long as nothing interfered on the other end. Or just get a really long bolt and cut it to max length.

For example, if you wanted to run the ARP flywheel bolts from a Supra, I don't believe these fit without running a bottoming tap in the holes and cutting some more threads. I didn't want to do that, so I went with these OEM bolts as they didn't require any bottom tapping.

I am not sure if extra threads would really be an added safety factor, other than the bolt needing a bit more vibration time to back itself out if it happened to. If you want extra security, safety wire them

 

[acemas99]

It should only take 3 days to get in parts they don't stock.

I can't confirm the difference of flywheel thickness. I went with these bolts as per recommendations on the link forum (and possibly on here as well).

1g 6 bolt M/T - MD040557 – 22.5MM
1g/2g 7 bolt M/T - MD302074 – 21.2MM

MD008839 - 26mm

Thanks. I'm assuming the spacer plate is about 1-2mm, so if you had a bolt that was 4.8mm longer than stock, it would just about cover a 4mm thicker flywheel and the 1-2mm plate to give you about the same number of active threads.

I ordered my flywheel this morning, so I'll be sure to measure it and the stock one when I change it out, and post some results so we can get this resolved. I'll probably hold off on the plate and bolts until I know if I need the extra length. Thanks for the help and part numbers.

My bad, I worded that wrong. What I was getting at is if they're through holes, why would you need to worry about bolt length, as you could run as long of a bolt as you wanted, as long as nothing interfered on the other end.

Gotchya, I should have figured that's what you meant.

I am not sure if extra threads would really be an added safety factor, other than the bolt needing a bit more vibration time to back itself out if it happened to. If you want extra security, safety wire them

The factor of safety for tensile stress (safety against stripping) would be increased. The more active threads you have, the greater the distribution of stress per thread. Although the tensile stress on the bolt is somewhat increased when the engine produces more than factory torque, my main concern would be the shear strength of the bolts, as this is where the engine's torque is directly applied. At least we 7-bolt pattern guys have an extra bolt to distribute the shear...I knew there had to be something good about 7 bolts

Thanks again, I'll keep you posted on my results.

 

[Black95awd]

Use the ARP flywheel bolts for a Supra. they are a tad longer.

 

[acemas99]

My flywheel comes in tomorrow, but for kicks I called the local Mitsu dealer. They want $13.56 for the spacer plate and $5.02 per bolt. I'm definately going to wait until I know if I need them.

 

[snowborder714]

That's why you should talk with some of our supporting vendors who can get OEM parts (ExtremePSI, MAPerformance, JNZ Tuning). They'll be able to get them for a better price than a local dealer.

 

[acemas99]

Good call..

The response from ExtremePSI...

Hello Mason,

Ok, here are your costs for these:

MD760086 = $9
MD008839 = $3 each

Regards,
Hung

 

[snowborder714]

Keep in mind, you still have to pay shipping, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than the local place.

 

[acemas99]

Brian, I can't seem to find the thread on the link forums that suggests the bolts and the plate. Could you post the name of the thread or a link?

Thanks,

Mason

 

[snowborder714]

Those should give you some reading to do. Not sure if they all are useful, but figured it couldn't hurt.

Flywheel Bolts - ECMtuning Forum
How many different length crank bolts are there on our cars? - ECMTuning Forum
ARP flywheel bolts with A/T spacer - ECMTuning Forum
ARP Toyota Supra Flywheel Bolts - ECMTuning Forum

 

[Black99gst]

sorry to bring this back guys but atleast its only been a few days, working on installing my new fidanza clutch and flywheel, and was curious if i got the right locktite, it is "Prime Lok" brand, "Stud & Bearing Formula type 275 RED High Strength" the only reason im second guessing this, is because on the package it says "special tools required for disassembly" to my knowledge, i do not own any of these "special tools" and do not want to end up installing this flywheel with this thread lock, and never again being able to remove them. anything you guys can offer is greatly appreciated. all i have is ratchets, and a breaker bar... which as far as im considered, not a "special tool"?

 

[snowborder714]

I used Loctite 266, as that's what I had read about and was recommended to use. I had some Harbor Freight brand red threadlocker, but chose to use a quality brand name. I'm not familiar with the Prime Lok brand.

 

[Black99gst]

i got it from Oreillys... im sure its fine, just wanted to make sure the strength wasnt too much for "Special Tools"

 

[snowborder714]

Heat is usually one of the 'tools' recommended in removing bolts with red threadlocker on them. Other than that and an impact/breaker bar, I don't know what else you'd need.

 

[tsi1991awd]

I have a 1g AWD, Fidanza flywheel, pressure plate and ACT disc. I used the stock flywheel bolts (brand new) and have had no problems. Put almost 6000 miles on it already. The step height was .610....I thought step height was the only thing that mattered?

 

[snowborder714]

The reason people are recommended to use the A/T spacer is that the flywheel bolts will dig into the aluminum surface of the Fidanza flywheel. This has been known to cause issues in the past.

 

[tsi1991awd]

So you put the spacer on the crank side, behind the flywheel? Or on the pressure plate side? I dont see how it would do anything...wouldnt it make the step height too shallow, in a sense, if it were behind the flywheel?

 

[snowborder714]

It won't affect step height at all. It goes on the outside of the flywheel, where the heads of the bolts sit.