First time logging with new LM-1 wideband

[UndergroundR32]

I don't get it. Through the whole 3rd gear pull I was at about 13:1 ratio, which would mean I was way lean, but I wasn't getting any knock and my timing seemed fine. However it went to about 10:1 for a little while during the pull. I know I'm think I'm rich, so why's it reading that I'm lean?

 

[Blk_99gst]

I get my lm-1 unit on Friday, so I can tell you how I log after that. 13:1 is pretty lean. Were you using a 1g logger to look at knock and timing advance? Where do you have the wideband o2 sensor located? It's not after a cat is it? Just throwing that out there because your air/fuel ratio after a cat is not valid.

Did you hook it up to the cigarette lighter? Does it take a long time to get the sensor warmed up? Did you get the rpm cabling too?

 

[UndergroundR32]

The o2 sensor is mounted at the very end of the downpipe. My downpipe bolts straight to my muffler which is directly underneath the drivers seat. I have no cat and no RPM cable. Timing seemed fine.. Not above 21 degrees. No knock at all either. I was using the pocketlogger program on my palm pilot.

 

[Pearl93VR4]

Originally posted by UndergroundR32
The o2 sensor is mounted at the very end of the downpipe. My downpipe bolts straight to my muffler which is directly underneath the drivers seat. I have no cat and no RPM cable. Timing seemed fine.. Not above 21 degrees. No knock at all either. I was using the pocketlogger program on my palm pilot.

I'm definately not 100% sure on this, but wouldn't it be better to have the WBO2 sensor a little closer to the turbo?

13:1 is a little lean considering that 12-12.5:1 is just about perfect for turbocharged engines.

Are you 100% certain that your knock sensor is functioning correctly?

You say timing never advanced past 21 degrees, but did it ever dip or flatten out? A steady advance is what you're going for.

What are you using for fuel control? You seem to be in a very poor state of tune.

Just out of curiosity, what is your A/F at cruise?

 

[Blk_99gst]

Originally posted by Pearl93VR4
I'm definately not 100% sure on this, but wouldn't it be better to have the WBO2 sensor a little closer to the turbo?

13:1 is a little lean considering that 12-12.5:1 is just about perfect for turbocharged engines.

It really doesn't matter where the wideband o2 sensor is. I have the same lm-1 unit on order, and I have the clip that attaches the sensor to the back of the tailpipe. If anything running it further back in the exhaust track will extend the life of the sensor. Turbo cars have a tendancy to kill wideband sensors, especailly if they are too close to the turbo.

11.5:1 is ideal for pump gas. On race gas (100 octane), I would go for 12:1, but not 12.5:1; that's too lean in my opinion.

 

[91TSiGuy]

Maybe try recalibrating the sensor. Was there ever a time where the car was ran with the sensor not powered? You turn on the sensor right after you start the car right? If anything, try the forums for the lm-1 on innovate's website.

 

[Blk_99gst]

Originally posted by 91TSiGuy
? You turn on the sensor right after you start the car right?

I don't believe so. You want the wideband sensor powered up and heated up ready to go before you turn your car on; from my understanding. And then say never run your car with the wideband sensor in but off.

 

[91TSiGuy]

About starting the car up......
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209&highlight=start

You can run your car without the wideband sensor installed, but you should no run the car with the sensor installed AND turned off. You will kill the sensor from the exhaust heat and not having the sensor body powered and heated itself. I have done this to two sensors, both unintentionally. The first time the power supply cable was bumped and lost connection at the cigarette lighter. The second time the plug connector underneath the car became corroded from the winter mess of using the car year round.

Check out those forums if you have any other questions. They'll probably have the answer already, or there's an answer in the yahoo groups archives.

 

[UndergroundR32]

I calibrated it correctly. It takes about 30-45 seconds to warm up. My knock sensor is brand new. The timing climbs to 21 degrees and then slowly drops down to 16 when I let off at about 7800 rpm. It starts dropping at about 6000 and ends up at 16 degrees at abotu 7800.

 

[Blk_99gst]

Originally posted by UndergroundR32
The timing climbs to 21 degrees and then slowly drops down to 16 when I let off at about 7800 rpm. It starts dropping at about 6000 and ends up at 16 degrees at abotu 7800.

Huh??? Timing should never decrease during a run; 21->16 degs would be bad.

 

[Violater101]

I have my wideband o2 sensor located where the stock rear o2 sensor would be. It works just fine.

 

[UndergroundR32]

Originally posted by Blk_99gst
Huh??? Timing should never decrease during a run; 21->16 degs would be bad.

What could cause that?

 

[Blk_99gst]

Originally posted by Violater101
I have my wideband o2 sensor located where the stock rear o2 sensor would be. It works just fine.

What did you do with the 2nd o2 sensor then? Cut it out and replace it with resistors and capacitors. Or is it just hanging there? Or other...

 

[Blk_99gst]

Originally posted by UndergroundR32
What could cause that?

Knock; running lean.

(This is for a 2g ecu, I'm sure the 1g cars and vr4's are similar)
Ideally, when you start in 3rd gear at 2500 rpm and then floor it, the ecu freaks out with all the new incoming air and pulls timing down to 8 or 9 degs. Then as you creap up in rpm, timing raises; it should always stay the same or increase, if it ever decrease then you are too lean or getting knock at that rpm. So after the initial hit to 8 or 9degs, it should creep back up to 18 or 19degs at the top of the gear.

So when you say timing for you starts at 21 and slowly creeps down to 16 at the end of the gear, that would be very bad in my opinion.

 

[yo2001]

My timing will climb to 23 and slowly goes down to 16-17 deg by 7000rpm. No knock, pretty sure that's how it suppose to be

 

[kpt4321]

Huh??? Timing should never decrease during a run; 21->16 degs would be bad.

This is wrong. Timing will decrease as engine speed goes past 6000 rpm on EVERY 1g car with a stock timing map in the ECU.

 

[Blk_99gst]

This is wrong. Timing will decrease as engine speed goes past 6000 rpm on EVERY 1g car with a stock timing map in the ECU.

O.K, I didn't know how 1gen timing operated. That's messed up in my opinion! 2g timing is nothing like that, you get 18-20deg by the top of the gear, not decreasing from 20 down to 16; silly 1g's!