First Log NEED HELP PLease

[cramec2]

Ok went for a ride.. 65 degrees out 19lbs boost on pump gas.I have safc2,190 pump, 550's,big 16g,exhaust.I hope this will do for info..

RPM-O2v-Timing
2556 .95 23
2656 .93 20
2768 .93 16
2892 .93 16
3020 .93 10
3168 .97 8
3328 .97 5
3504 .95 5
3704 .95 6
3900 .95 8
4064 .95 8
4288 .95 8
4436 .95 8
4612 .93 9
4816 .93 9
4952 .93 10
5152 .93 9
5272 .91 11
5436 .91 12
5580 .91 12
5756 .91 13
5888 .91 14
6008 .91 16
6152 .91 17
6272 .89 17
6400 .89 17
6516 .89 17
6640 .89 19
6724 .87 38

 

[DJ23GSX]

What rpm did you go wot? For starters i would add fuel at 5k and maybe even 6k too and take another run.

 

[cramec2]

That run was at wot at first log 3rd gear 2500ish start...Why would I add gas at 5-6000 when it looks like timing is droppind lower on the rpm's?

 

[DJ23GSX]

That run was at wot at first log 3rd gear 2500ish start...Why would I add gas at 5-6000 when it looks like timing is droppind lower on the rpm's?

2g's timing should gradually increase when going wot and boost kicks in. You'll see a dip in timing at first when the turbo kicks in and from there it should gradually increase unless of course you have knock. It looks like you should have a bit more timing around 5k and
6k Timing also looks a bit low around 4k but your o2's look rich. There is such a thing as rich knock.

I would personally try and take fuel out between 3k to 4k and add some to 5k and 6k and see how the timing reacts to the changes. If timing goes up then your going in the right direction.

To be honest with you its kinda pointless to tune in this cool weather cause tomorrow when its 80* outside you will most likely have to tune all over again.

 

[cramec2]

Thank you for the help..I will try to tune when temps are warmer but I am going to races on sept 29th,most likely that will be a colder day..Is there a magic number that I need to stay above on 02 and timing? What are the correct numbers that I am shooting for thru out the rmp range? How low is too low or high?

 

[hottboost]

Thank you for the help..I will try to tune when temps are warmer but I am going to races on sept 29th,most likely that will be a colder day..Is there a magic number that I need to stay above on 02 and timing? What are the correct numbers that I am shooting for thru out the rmp range? How low is too low or high?

1 degree of timing retard is 10 counts of knock.

For reference, the 2G ECU holds timing at 7 counts and retards 1 degree of timing for every 3 degrees over that (i.e. 10,13,16, etc)

Just an FYI!

You should want it to dip to 6-8* when full boost hits, Then climp a steady line to readline with NO DIPS. The stock 2G timing map is a max of 16* advance. On a stock bottom end I wouldnt go past 22*. You cannot adjust timing so you have to hide it with fuel. As far as your o2's they are narrow band so they are not real accurate, you just want to watch them for a drastic change. Your log doesnt look that bad, just add a little fuel at 3000 and 5000rpms. Hope that helps

Carl

 

[donmagicjuan]

One other thing I noticed is that you're running very rich during spoolup, which is probably causing you to reach full boost later than what you could be. Try to attain a transition from stoich (0.5V) to 11:1 (0.92V or whatever) between the moment you go WOT at 2500 to the point you reach full boost. Doing that could get you to full boost a couple hundred RPMs earlier. If that doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll try to clarify it more.

 

[cramec2]

If you could clarifiy that would be great..By the way how can you run 25lbs boost with out fuel cut? If I run more than 19 lbs my car cuts fuel and spits and sputters. One more thing.water injection works? How much power does it add?

 

[donmagicjuan]

Sure, no problem. At low RPM you can get away with a leaner AFR because the air is relatively cold (no boost yet). As boost builds, the temperature of the air rises, and you need a richer AFR to avoid detonation. So it makes sense then that you would tune your AFR to start out close to stoich when you hit WOT (below the point where boost builds), and gradually richen things up to ~11:1 (0.92V?) by the time you hit full boost. Make sense? This results in higher temperature exhaust gases, which aids in spooling up the turbo.

Hitting fuel cut usually means that you either have a boost leak somewhere or your injectors are too small. It's basically determined by a specific airflow per revolution of the motor, but it usually works out to about 100% injector duty cycle. Leaks and injectors would be the first things I'd look to if I were having that problem.

Water injection is nothing short of pure magic for a forced induction engine. It cools the intake charge, thereby allowing you to turn up the boost past the previous knock threshold. Without WI, the charge would be far too hot for pump gas, and the result would be serious detonation. That being said, water injection doesn't create power in and of itself, it just allows you to squeeze more out of the turbo you already have. As a reference, I gained about 40-50 whp on my setup by turning up the boost from 21 psi to 26 psi on the dyno.

 

[cramec2]

I think I have nearly the same mods as you.I have 550's.I don't think they are maxed out.On the dyno tune they pulled alot more fuel than when I had stock injectors.The only way I can beat fuel cut is lower boost levels to 18lbs or less. Should I leave at 19lbs and just add more fuel to the mix? As for the water injection, is that on all the time? Even when you are just putting around town..This may sound dumb but here it goes..When I want to add fuel on afc do I minus the settings or add to the settings.For the most part,my afc adjustments where all done on dyno at 95 degees with 88% humidity

 

[donmagicjuan]

If you have the same mods as me, I wouldn't be surprised if you hit fuel cut with 550s at those boost levels. I was seeing 93% IDC on 560s, running 26 psi and decaying to 22-23 psi by redline. I was also running at about 11.6:1, which gives me just a tad more room. With less available flow and a fatter AFR, I bet it'd be pretty easy to max out a set of 550s. Adding fuel to your mixture will just cause you to max them out and hit fuel cut sooner, not the opposite. Your best bet is to check your IDCs with a logger and do a boost leak test to make sure you don't have a leak that's making things worse.

My alcohol injection kit uses a progressive controller, meaning that the pump is normally off until a certain boost level is reached. Above this level, output of the pump increases until another boost setpoint is reached, at which point it is at full flow. The two setpoints are individually adjustable on the controller. This way it's a smooth transition rather than a step change, which in my opinion makes tuning it easier. Obviously it's not necessary when off-boost, so having the pump off then allows me to use a smaller alcohol tank.

If you wish to add fuel, then you need to make your AFC offset more positive or less negative. For example, if the current setting is -20%, you would change it to -18% to add 2% fuel. The numbers correspond to a factor by which the AFC unit is altering the airflow signal sent to the ECU. If the ECU thinks the airflow signal is 20% lower than actual, it will inject less fuel than the normal amount for the real airflow.

 

[DJ23GSX]

If you have the same mods as me, I wouldn't be surprised if you hit fuel cut with 550s at those boost levels. I was seeing 93% IDC on 560s, running 26 psi and decaying to 22-23 psi by redline. I was also running at about 11.6:1, which gives me just a tad more room. With less available flow and a fatter AFR, I bet it'd be pretty easy to max out a set of 550s. Adding fuel to your mixture will just cause you to max them out and hit fuel cut sooner, not the opposite. Your best bet is to check your IDCs with a logger and do a boost leak test to make sure you don't have a leak that's making things worse.QUOTE]


93% IDC @26psi with 560's?? Is that with the alcohol injection on? I have a supra sidemount with 560's 2g maf 48psi base fp and at 20psi i see IDC anywhere between
95-112% by redline. On most days i start seeing knock when i get over 105% IDC.
I've been pondering the idea of alcohol injection for the last year but can't decide.

 

[donmagicjuan]

93% IDC @26psi with 560's?? Is that with the alcohol injection on? I have a supra sidemount with 560's 2g maf 48psi base fp and at 20psi i see IDC anywhere between
95-112% by redline. On most days i start seeing knock when i get over 105% IDC.
I've been pondering the idea of alcohol injection for the last year but can't decide.

Geez, what AFR are you running? IDCs that high at 20 psi on a 16G would lend me to believe you have a boost leak somewhere. As long as you're in the 11:1 ballpark, you should be able to get more out of those injectors than that. I saw 93% at 26 psi with the alcohol injection, but I've turned down the boost since then until I can get some larger injectors. You really want to be below 85% IDC. It makes sense to me that you would knock above 100%-- the ECU is calling for more fuel but the injectors can't supply it. I would highly recommend a boost leak test if you haven't done one already and you're not trying to run stock AFRs.

If you plan on predominantly running pump gas in your car, and you would like to run higher boost levels, an alcohol injection kit will be worth every penny, believe me.

 

[DJ23GSX]

I have no boost leaks as of a few weeks ago but the car has been like this since i started tuning at 20psi. I only started to log IDC's after i was having knock issues after a 2g maf install. I never logged IDC's with my hacked 1g maf so i don't know what the difference was between the two and the IDC's. I am sure i am probly heatsoaking the mkiv i/c at
20-21psi so that may be causing my knock/IDC's to skyrocket.

I am also wondering if i have a fuel pressure issue. I have a rewired walbro 255 and an Aeromotive afrp. Somedays my idc's are right around 90-93% and sometimes i see over 100% even though i haven't touched the boost or safc settings. This is also with similiar weather conditions.

 

[donmagicjuan]

I'm still curious what AFR you are tuned to run. Do you have that information? You very well might have a variance in your fuel pressure resulting from a leak in your FPR.
Check out post #12 in this thread by Bruce (oldman). http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238101. It's some very helpful information.

 

[DJ23GSX]

I'm still curious what AFR you are tuned to run. Do you have that information? You very well might have a variance in your fuel pressure resulting from a leak in your FPR.
Check out post #12 in this thread by Bruce (oldman). http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238101. It's some very helpful information.

Great find i will definatly check that out Thanks.

I have no wideband only boost and egt.

As for fuel pressure i noticed that once i bumped it from 37psi up to about 45psi i was able to take out about 13% fuel on the afc across the board with 0 knock and that lowered my idc's to well under 90% but as the hot humid weather came i noticed that i am almost halfway back to where my safc was set at 37psi fp. Right now my safc settings are around +8%@4k to about +12%@7k this is with 0-3 counts of knock and 17-20* timing @20psi.

I know i have somesort of fp issue cause i lose all the pressure after shutting down the car. But it holds the pressure if i crimp the return line coming off the afpr. What could be leaky after the regulator and would this affect anything under boost??

 

[donmagicjuan]

Normally I would expect you to be around +4% with a 2G MAS, 550cc injectors and stock base fuel pressure. The fact that you're running 560s and higher than stock fuel pressure leads me to believe you should have negative offsets instead of positive. Are you saying you see knock if you try to lean it out anymore? I'd be willing to bet you're at a pretty rich AFR, which would explain your high IDCs. Do you have plans for a wideband in the future? They really make tuning so much easier, as well as getting the most out of your injectors.

 

[DJ23GSX]

Normally I would expect you to be around +4% with a 2G MAS, 550cc injectors and stock base fuel pressure. The fact that you're running 560s and higher than stock fuel pressure leads me to believe you should have negative offsets instead of positive. Are you saying you see knock if you try to lean it out anymore? I'd be willing to bet you're at a pretty rich AFR, which would explain your high IDCs. Do you have plans for a wideband in the future? They really make tuning so much easier, as well as getting the most out of your injectors.

Yes i will see knock when i take fuel out. I usually get around 5 counts but my timing is still around 17*. I haven't any plans on a wideband any time soon. Like i mentioned above i think heatsoak may have a hand in this as well. I can take out a few % of fuel from the start but after a few pulls i have to add a bit to get rid of the knock.