first drive on new rebuild, idles perfect & stutters bad in drive

[1Gina2G]

Hey everyone, it's been 2 years and I finally took the talon down the road for it's first drive, this is a completley reserected car(1G in a 2g build/2Ghead)...anyways

EDIT- I should've also mentioned that the major thing I just realized was that the BOV never went off at all! This is my first turbo car, used to shifting N/T, It's got to be a boost problem right?


After going through everything in the engine bay, I decided to start the engine, and have it warm up to regular tempature, to begin setting the timing with the light, after grounding the timing connector of course. It was actually really hard for me to see the timing marks on the crank or the cams, even though they have fresh white-out on the marks, So I decided I wanted to do it later tonight when it's darker. So the ignition timing was not set prior to the first drive, like I wanted, but I did remember to un-ground the connector as well..

Had to mention this^ since, I'm wondering how much the ignition timing could affect the smoothness of driving? I'd like to think it has a fair amount to do with the problem, but I'm really still learning about these cars (first build here) and would like to get an idea of what the real problem can be.

before anyone asks, I did a BLT before and shortly after pulling back in the driveway, both times I could still take it up to 15 psi with the compressor blowing out 30psi.

I was trying to keep an eye on all 4 of my guages while driving, the only one I'm not sure about is my boost gauge readings, I almost actually think it NEVER read in BOOST, possibly stayed in vaccum the whole time in the 10-20 but I could be getting confused with the idle readings...but how could it pass a BLT and not build boost?

-the oil pressure flucuated as low as 20 to around 50 or so depending on drive, lowered as it got warmer and high in on start up, seems normal.

-Fuel pressure stayed steadish around 40 PSI, seems normal for a 2G fuel setup.
-Wideband was reading just fine, idles around 14.7-15.2, and while accelerating hard though the gears (but not WOT) the wideband was going around the 11-13ish range, seemed normal.

what should I check / adjust? I tried to do as much research as I could before I took it on the road, definatley took my time. Was really hoping the drive would be as smooth as the idle is, I can make a video of the idle if needed.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Redo the blt, and how do you tune the car, how about a video. How is the wastegate,

 

[curt-s]

before anyone asks, I did a BLT before and shortly after pulling back in the driveway, both times I could still take it up to 15 psi with the compressor blowing out 30psi.

Maybe I'm incorrect on this one, but that sounds like if you have the regulator set to 30 and you're only maxing out 15 on your boost gauge, you're losing quite a bit of air somewhere.

Where did you hook your tester to? The turbo compressor inlet or did you put it in somewhere after the turbo? You won't build boost if your wastegate flapper is flapping in the wind Maybe it's not attached to the wastegate actuator arm?

 

[1Gina2G]

Maybe I'm incorrect on this one, but that sounds like if you have the regulator set to 30 and you're only maxing out 15 on your boost gauge, you're losing quite a bit of air somewhere.

Where did you hook your tester to? The turbo compressor inlet or did you put it in somewhere after the turbo? You won't build boost if your wastegate flapper is flapping in the wind Maybe it's not attached to the wastegate actuator arm?

Well I've asked about BLTs quite a few times, everyone says to set the compressor to what you're running and of course you wouldnt set it do anything around 100 or anything. I just have the wastegate line running to the intercooler piping for stock boost. It seems when I put 30 Psi at the tester (all my testings been done at the turbo inlet BTW) that pressure is 'lost' becuase it has to build up, but it builds up. I wasn't 'trying' to run even 15 psi but I still wanted to test at 30 psi to be sure. I was happy that it was holding 15psi for a cupple seconds after I took off the tester. I've also sprayed each area individually with the soapy water and brought each spot to 15, didn't see the smallest bit of anything. Also re-did the entire intake/MAF pipe couplings with some copper spray to ensure a seal. I made sure not to spray near the MAF itself of course.
Also redid the brake booster line, AND the PCV valve line with 100 psi check valves, even though my PCV tested fine in the previous BLT before they were installed. If there's a leak it'd have to be microscopic.

The turbo is a new 16g...the wastegate flapper is there and the rod connected on both sides with the clips/pins. Never 'tested' it's functionality, how would I? If anything the flapper is staying closed, if I were to think of it. Seems like it'd take alot of force to open it up, the way it shuts.

 

[Rsawd95dsm]

No boost controller of any kind?

 

[1Gina2G]

No boost controller of any kind?

Nope. Wastegate line runs strait downward to a port in my aftermarket I/C piping which is supposed to be 'stock' boost from what I understand, roughly 7-9? Just trying to simplify things to get things going initially..never drove a talon before.

Profile is up to date, which shows that I have a 255 pump that came with the car, so I kept it, fuel pressures good and I'm not running rich or lean, according to both my wideband & 02 sensors, to clear up the confusion on why I have a factory fuel regulator, i've read plenty that I should be fine for now..anyways the rest of the fuel-

new fuelab filter, stock rail and stock 450 injectors. Increased return line width to 5/16, rewired fuel pump with 10 gauge wire.

-new MAF, and new front oxygen sensor in the stock location, wideband is actually in the downpipe BEFORE the flex section.

Also, haven't done any tuning since I'm not trying to run bigger injectors or anything just yet. I do have EVOscan as a program for logging only since I have an Eprom ECU, which I know it's a shame but I just don't have the cash for DSMlink or the need to for that matter...again just yet. Evoscan was cheap and I wanted to atleast log some other values, used it to set the TPS voltage, and check the postion, good to know my 02 sensor voltage is also good. But what's a shame is evoscan doesn't tune eprom ecu, just logs, ecu flash that is. But everyone with link wants/needs (cant remember) Eprom ECU. So I haven't adjusted the ECU at all.

 

[1Gina2G]

finally found a single thread earlier where someone brought that up specifically. Also mentioned a compression test, along with testing the wires and plugs which everything ignition related is fine, totally doubt this new engine has any compression problems either. can also hesitate while rich but it's not rich.

really hoping it ends up being the timing adjustment on the light that fixes this problem, I couldn't get to it tonight. Also really tryin to figure out how to test the wastegate arm, just unbolt it off the turbo, or the whole turbo?

 

[Cdc1221]

Use your compressor. Adjust line pressure dowdown to 10 or 12 psi, connect it to your wg line and voilah

 

[Cdc1221]

Btw, congrats on the first drive

 

[fourgsixthree33]

So your WG hose goes from your WG to your interccoler piping? You need to connect it from the WG to the turbo. There should be a nipple on there where you connect the line. You said it is a 16G, as far as I know, all the 16G's have this port.

What kind of 16G is it? EVO 3 big 16G, small 16G, Ebay 16G?

Ebay 16G's tend to have WG issues. I think anyway.

[ame]http://youtu.be/axaZ8mXimyA[/ame]

 

[1Gina2G]

Use your compressor. Adjust line pressure dowdown to 10 or 12 psi, connect it to your wg line and voilah

thanks for the info, I guess I'll have to find a smaller hose for the compressor, I have several but they're all roughly 3/8, the hose of the wastegate is really small, will some kind of reducer work for the hose size?

also, you should be able to do this with everything still bolted on right? Or do you just unbolt the WG from the turbo?

 

[Cdc1221]

Leave it on. Use a blowgun with a small nozzle. Or just slide the wg hose up into the compressor hose if it fits tight enough

 

[1Gina2G]

So your WG hose goes from your WG to your interccoler piping? You need to connect it from the WG to the turbo. There should be a nipple on there where you connect the line. You said it is a 16G, as far as I know, all the 16G's have this port.

What kind of 16G is it? EVO 3 big 16G, small 16G, Ebay 16G?

Ebay 16G's tend to have WG issues. I think anyway.

Thanks for the video. I'm honestly shocked about the first sentence in your post. There's another nipple/port on the turbine housing side itself? that's supposed to connect to the WG? Then what is the intercooler port for?

Honestly this IS an ebay 16g. I messed up my perfectly fine EVO3 16g which I got to match the evo3 manifold & 02 housing. All because I messed up the oil return thread. Anyways, when I got it I switched the ebay exhaust housing with the evo3 exhaust housing (on the turbo) I had and made sure everything was aligned and sealed. shaft spins freely..so it doesn't have the original housing or wastage. I had to use the wastegate arm from the evo 16g as well for the shaft to fit/work.

 

[fourgsixthree33]

I am referring to the port on the J-Pipe. Do you have an aftermarket J-Pipe?

Any IC pipe after the turbo would work I guess. It's just normally you run the line from the WG to the J-Pipe.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

thanks for the info, I guess I'll have to find a smaller hose for the compressor, I have several but they're all roughly 3/8, the hose of the wastegate is really small, will some kind of reducer work for the hose size?

also, you should be able to do this with everything still bolted on right? Or do you just unbolt the WG from the turbo?

Try doing your BLT's from the ic inlet. Testing at the compressor inlet usually just produces unreliable results due to whether or not the turbo/engine is warm and not tossing 30psi into your crankcase or some other such pain in the ass.

But as far as your 3/8" hose... no. Just run to the store with $2.00 and pick up the vacuum hose you need.

 

[Cdc1221]

Anywhere thar sees boost really

 

[1Gina2G]

Try doing your BLT's from the ic inlet. Testing at the compressor inlet usually just produces unreliable results due to whether or not the turbo/engine is warm and not tossing 30psi into your crankcase or some other such pain in the ass.

But as far as your 3/8" hose... no. Just run to the store with $2.00 and pick up the vacuum hose you need.

I have spare vacuum lines but I'm saying the hoses that plug into my air compressor are roughly 3/8 in size, so I was wondering if a reducer will be needed, so that it can pressurize the WG

So do you mean put the tester on the intercooler, to pressurize the intercooler & everything else, to bypass the turbo itself? This should be a more accurate BLT?

 

[Cdc1221]

That could pull double duty. Blt plus it will pressurize the wg line as well

 

[1Gina2G]

That could pull double duty. Blt plus it will pressurize the wg line as well

So a BLT at the turbo inlet, should pressureize the WG you're saying? But if I were starting at the intercooler, that would bypass that port, since its before.

 

[Cdc1221]

Tale the lower ic pipe loose from the jpipe and pressurize it there

 

[1Gina2G]

Tale the lower ic pipe loose from the jpipe and pressurize it there

I should've realize that haha. Okay so as long as the WG arm is not stuck, 30 psi should deffinatley open it up right? While doing the BLT there?

 

[1Gina2G]

Okay everyone the sputtering and hesistation had been fixed, it was simply confusement on what to set my adjustable timing light at, so I set my ignition timing wrong. Set it at 5*BTDC today after warming up & grounding the connector, tripple checked everything before taking it on the road, and this time the drive was PERFECT. Didn't even compare to the last drive, which was so shakey in all gears.

I even saw a thread where someone had the exact same problem, with hesitation while driving, turned out that he was at 7 * BTDC which everyone thought was odd, but he claims that moving it back to *5 made all the difference.

Also glad I can keep my plugs. I accidently bought NGK BRP7ES which are cold plugs, rather then the 6ES series I shouldve got for my near-stock setup.

thanks again everyone