Finishing fuel system for turbo kit

[eclipsalon]

so im trying to go turbo on a 95 420a, was wondering if i could get some assurance.
first off, would like to know what else i would need, here's what ive got so far:
16g turbo, 255 wally, 550's, mani & adapter, intercooler & piping, so pretty much the "bolt ons". now im wondering what else i would need running off wastegate boost (7psi) besides 12:1 fmu and fpr?
also i someone could verify: is it true that running at 8psi tune is not required?

help is very much appreciated

 

[95weclipse]

Well you could just go ahead and bolt all of this on and run your 7psi but unless you build the bottom end some what decent your going to have problems. They might not be right away but after awhile the piston ring landings wear out because they are not made to see boost, as for the manifold and adapter what do you mean? and you will probably have to custom make a exhaust manifold for that 16g. Are the 550s, the intake, 255 for a non turbo or are they for a turbo?

 

[eclipsalon]

i have a log style t3 main and the adapter is to go t3 to mhi.
255 is uni(already in the car), intake is gonna be last, and 550's are for a turbo? i think will have to check, might be the 540's off evo

 

[95weclipse]

I might be wrong about this but I am pretty sure that the injectors are different , but yeah I would at least search it some more on here before you really waste your time with a blown engine Id hate to see ya loose an engine because of something that was over looked

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-turbo-conversion/366603-end-all-parts-list-go-turbo.html

 

[eclipsalon]

yea, i wanna triple check and make sure i have every thing before the turbo goes on (engine on), cars also DD so i wanna make sure i have everything because ive only got one day to put it together

 

[95weclipse]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-turbo-conversion/379212-going-turbo.html


Just to let you know you ARE NOT going to do it in one day no way, it would need a rebuild with good parts so you better have a different car to drive its gonna take a few weeks to get it right

Take some pics of your parts and post them would ya?

 

[eclipsalon]

ive checked out those threads already. so your saying the car will not run by just slapping on the turbo and etc. without building the bottom end first for an "8lb build", and if it did it would run crappy, which is not what i want?

 

[95weclipse]

The ECU is tuned to run a certain way which is naturally aspirated not forced induction , yes it would run crappy, your stock bottom end that has xxx,xxx miles on it is worn out and would take a dump on you 1500 miles down the road via rod knock, main bearing knock, blown piston, something, your timing needs to be pulled, the pistons are flat tops and have way more compression than a turbo motor, it would basically destroy the bottom end, the fuel would not be right because you are adding more air, and more air=more fuel, more fuel+more air=more power BUT your ecu would not know what to do with it self.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

The ECU is tuned to run a certain way which is naturally aspirated not forced induction , yes it would run crappy, your stock bottom end that has xxx,xxx miles on it is worn out and would take a dump on you 1500 miles down the road via rod knock, main bearing knock, blown piston, something, your timing needs to be pulled, the pistons are flat tops and have way more compression than a turbo motor, it would basically destroy the bottom end, the fuel would not be right because you are adding more air, and more air=more fuel, more fuel+more air=more power BUT your ecu would not know what to do with it self.

OP, do a compression test to determine the condition of your engine. If it's been properly cared for, there's no reason you can't add a turbosystem. It does not need to be built for a 16G at just 8psi.

I'd recommend a 12:1 FMU, Walbro 255lph HP, and fuel cut defender for your fuel system. Use the stock FPR and injectors. Though 95weclipse was right that the ECU won't add any fuel in boost, the FMU will.

 

[eclipsalon]

hmm... makes perfect sense, will keep searching and ask more questions tomorrow.

 

[95weclipse]

OP, do a compression test to determine the condition of your engine. If it's been properly cared for, there's no reason you can't add a turbosystem. It does not need to be built for a 16G at just 8psi.

I'd recommend a 12:1 FMU, Walbro 255lph HP, and fuel cut defender for your fuel system. Use the stock FPR and injectors. Though 95weclipse was right that the ECU won't add any fuel in boost, the FMU will.

I didnt know you where on,, I should have directed him towards you. I read your stuff when I was thinking about doing my 420a turbo.

 

[tec_41]

Don't bother with larger injectors, you won't have a way to properly control them with a basic setup. Stock ones will be fine for 7psi

Also, you won't need a fuel cut defender on a 95. That only applies to 96+.

You still need to worry about your oil setup- The feed generally comes from the back of the block in place of the stock oil pressure sender (you need to fashion up some brass fittings). The return goes down to the top of the oil pan, where you have to weld in a bung.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

The ECU is tuned to run a certain way which is naturally aspirated not forced induction , yes it would run crappy, your stock bottom end that has xxx,xxx miles on it is worn out and would take a dump on you 1500 miles down the road via rod knock, main bearing knock, blown piston, something, your timing needs to be pulled, the pistons are flat tops and have way more compression than a turbo motor, it would basically destroy the bottom end, the fuel would not be right because you are adding more air, and more air=more fuel, more fuel+more air=more power BUT your ecu would not know what to do with it self.

Wow I don't even know what to say about this post. Maybe stay away from giving 420a advice cause you do not know what you are talking about. I don't know what a "flat" piston is but yeah 420a has higher compression pistons but you can turbo hc pistons. On our stock pistons 8psi is the max you can run because they are not forged. If they were forged and retained stock compression it would be more difficult to tune, however there are people out there running more than 8psi on a high compression. The 12:1 fmu and fuel pump will make sure you wont run lean. As for the ECU since your car is a 96 you need a missing link because the ecu isn't programed to see anything but a vacuum. Use stock injectors untill you have something to control injectors (like a ms system ) The only thing else I see besides what was said already is a downpipe and getting a wideband to make sure you arn't running lean.

OP, do a compression test to determine the condition of your engine. If it's been properly cared for, there's no reason you can't add a turbosystem. It does not need to be built for a 16G at just 8psi.

I'd recommend a 12:1 FMU, Walbro 255lph HP, and fuel cut defender for your fuel system. Use the stock FPR and injectors. Though 95weclipse was right that the ECU won't add any fuel in boost, the FMU will.

Listen to this, do the compression test... Thanks Velocita.

Don't bother with larger injectors, you won't have a way to properly control them with a basic setup. Stock ones will be fine for 7psi

Also, you won't need a fuel cut defender on a 95. That only applies to 96+.

You still need to worry about your oil setup- The feed generally comes from the back of the block in place of the stock oil pressure sender (you need to fashion up some brass fittings). The return goes down to the top of the oil pan, where you have to weld in a bung.

Yes on injectors. @ Tec - Homeboy with bad advice has a 95gst where as OP has a 96 so he will need missing link. @ OP Good luck man and save that install for a long weekend.

 

[tec_41]

Yes on injectors. @ Tec - Homeboy with bad advice has a 95gst where as OP has a 96 so he will need missing link. @ OP Good luck man and save that install for a long weekend.

His first post says he's trying to turbo a 95, so if that's true no missing link is needed.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

His first post says he's trying to turbo a 95, so if that's true no missing link is needed.

Oh well his profile says 96 sorry thats my bad.

 

[95weclipse]

Flat pistons means the top of the piston is flat turbo cars use dished pistons and the "hemi" has a domed piston, and there is another type called wedged pistons, I know this because I built 2 900hp dirt racing v8s with my dad so yeah I know about pistons and yes 420as have flat top pistons so dont correct me if YOU dont know what your talking about I have a 420a sitting on my floor in my garage and I rebuilt my 420a and I looked into turboing it when I had it and it is NOT safe putting ANY boost to stock internals regardless what any body says it will eff up in the long run because N/A motors are NOT built to see boost the rings WILL give out.

pic 1) flat top 420a stock
Hmmmmmmmmmm looks like a flat top to me, stock 420a laying in my garage right now with the head off

pic 2) domed

pic 3) wedge

pic 4) dished

 

[eclipsalon]

well i think i have gained the knowledge i was seeking. Thanks to all for your help!! Will keep you guys updated.
p.s. after i get the fmu, which is all im missing now, i will throw the system together and cross my figures that the rings dont give at so soon. if/when they do i will just build and upgrade!

 

[VelocitàPaola]

so yeah I know about pistons and yes 420as have flat top pistons so dont correct me if YOU dont know what your talking about I have a 420a sitting on my floor in my garage and I rebuilt my 420a and I looked into turboing it when I had it

Okay...

and it is NOT safe putting ANY boost to stock internals regardless what any body says it will eff up in the long run because N/A motors are NOT built to see boost the rings WILL give out.

Regardless of what anybody says? How about the hundreds (maybe thousands) of people (including me) who have successfully turbocharged their 420A without touching the internals?

i will throw the system together and cross my figures that the rings dont give at so soon. if/when they do i will just build and upgrade!

If you play it safe, keep the boost under safe limits, and of course perform regular maintenance, your engine will last for a long time.

 

[95weclipse]

Okay and how many miles on the motor and how long have the N/A rings lasted? and pistons? I bet you take any of them motors apart and something is worn out and not right. The boost has to effect SOMETHING, something has to fail prematurely.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Okay and how many miles on the motor and how long have the N/A rings lasted? and pistons? I bet you take any of them motors apart and something is worn out and not right. The boost has to effect SOMETHING, something has to fail prematurely.

Thousands of miles? Tens of thousands? There's certainly no more wear than a 4G63 running a 14B or 16G at 8psi or less for the same amount of time.

You're arguing common knowledge and it's not worth it...

 

[96 420a-t]

Side note stay away from the missing link. It doesn't work right and throw a CEL. Go with a FCD instead. 8 psi is fine on stock internals depending on how much air that turbo is pushing.

 

[tec_41]

Side note stay away from the missing link. It doesn't work right and throw a CEL. Go with a FCD instead. 8 psi is fine on stock internals depending on how much air that turbo is pushing.

We've already established he won't need either, it's a 95


But yeah, just ignore 95weclipse's posts and you should have some solid advice. Just another lost 4g63 guy...

 

[96 420a-t]

Sorry I misread. Bad eyesight and a tiny screen and all.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

I would just like to point out to that a lot of the forged piston for a 420A are a "flat top" piston too though I have seen some "dished" style forged pistons for the 420a. It comes down to what material is used rather than style when building for boost. That was interesting though, I have seen the different style pistons but didn't know the names so thanks. I know if someone was to do the 2.4L swap they could use the srt4 pistons which are the "dome" style but I don't think construction type matters as far as adding boost goes. I wouldn't mind seeing some technical data proving otherwise though.

BTW

Side note stay away from the missing link. It doesn't work right and throw a CEL. Go with a FCD instead. 8 psi is fine on stock internals depending on how much air that turbo is pushing.

Speaking from experience Travis? Don't mean to thread jack but it sounds like you dark stabbed your problem away. Come on man resolve your thread already.